Quote: "Computer makers have been told they'll no longer be able to get Windows XP OEM by the end of this year, despite strong ongoing demand for the OS. Analysts and computer makers are wondering if the move is premature given Vista's ongoing performance and compatibility issues. Dell recently said it would reintroduce XP on a range of machines due to customer demand but Microsoft will only allow this until the end of the year."
Read the rest here: apcmag.com/5835/vendors_in_no_rush_to_ditch_xp_for_vista
So get your XP's while you can. Andre Blog: adacosta.spaces.live.com My Vista Quickstart Guide: adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry

Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin] wrote:

SP1 for Vista is also due by the end of this year, so from that standpoint this move makes sense. I would expect that by the end of the year, demand for XP will be greatly diminished compared to what it is now. Tom Porterfield

This should really help Vista's sales numbers. We can read how it out sold XP in the year over year numbers
I know what some will say, Microsoft is just doing every one a huge favor. By leaving XP out there as an option. People will make a decision they regret by not buying Vista and would have to upgrade later. So they'll just take away the temptation to stick with a known good and push users along into the path we all know is the right directions.
I really hope they do release new OSes every 2 years or so and I hope they take this approach with every release. The masses will always hold back technology, It takes a great company like Microsoft to push people ahead or drag them kicking and screaming if need be.
I really think they should pull XP off the shelves and OEMs by June 1st
"Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]"

This is a great move by Microsoft. They are opening the door wide for alternative operating systems. Even Vista Basic is unsuitable for older machines. People will not be able to license their 256 meg celeron machines, because the operating system will not work with it. People do not go kicking and screaming. They install Linux. Don't throw away your old machine. Windows Xp was making it seem slower than it actually was. Install Linux...and thank you Microsoft.
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:33:24 -0400, Dale M. White wrote:

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On 4/12/2007 9:33 AM On a whim, Dale M. White pounded out on the keyboard

Well, helping "Vista's sales numbers" is the bottom line, obviously.
I guess you don't have a business with a lot of workstations, do you? None of the networks I admin, nor companies that friends of mine work for, have any plans on moving to Vista for at least a year, and most it's likely longer. Most of the current hardware would run it poorly (if at all). The workstations have quite a few good years left. The cost of upgrading versus boosting productivity is minimal. And most companies have Corporate editions of XP anyway, so we already have it, it doesn't need to come installed. They have much more important things to spend their money on than a little "Wow" factor.
Sure Vista is here to stay. But XP is going to be running on machines much longer than MS would like. Or you.
Terry
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Dale, You must be the Sales Manager for MS. Or you sell new PCs. Or you work as a PC tech. All I want is a PC with a solid stable OS. Vista did not give me that. Even after doing all the research and building a PC that is totally "Vista Ready". MS would be better off if they sold OSs that target what the consumer wants/needs. How about an OS that is just for games. Or games and internet. I guess that is XBox. Or an OS personal that gives the owner all the control over what it does. With no hidden processes. I don't need a system that auto saves ,auto shares, auto-updates or auto anything. When I turn on this PC. If I want to play a game? That is all I want the machine to do. If I want to surf the net? That's it! I don't want it to check with MS for updates. If I want to type a letter? That's all. I don't need it shared or saved with any other folder. And I don't need a system that is constantly second guessing me. Yes! I want to close this program. Yes! I want to delete this. If I didn't? I wouldn't have chose that option. What if these functions were in a car? You are cruising down the road on Cruise Control. Then the engine computer thinks "No one has touched the gas pedle in the last 20 minutes. So I will shut the engine off." Or a truck crosses the center medium heading straight at you. You jerk on the steering to avoid a headon ( seconds count) and the steering locks up and a message appears on the dash. "This action will cause you to leave the road. Are you sure you want to do this?" Or a car stops in front of you where you have to slam on the breaks. The message says" This could cause damage to your breaks. Are you sure you want to do this?" If MS made the software for car brains? You would not last a day. All I want is a PC to do what I want it to do. Not what MS thinks I want it to do. Also I just heard from my wife(she works there) that the local university,a globally known university, just announced it will not go to Vista. And that no one(students,faculty) should use Vista. Due to it's inherant problems. Plus shareing security issues.
"Dale M. White" wrote:

"Bill"

Older machines already have a licensed OS. Pulling XP off shelves does not affect machines already bought. So it's unclear as to what your point is with Vista Basic not running on old machines has to do with anything? By the end of the year there will be no reason for a consumer to purchase a "home" machine with XP over Vista with the exception of preference. Vista will run on those new machines just fine.
How long was Win98 OEM available after WinXP was released?
There is also no mention of XP retail being discontinued. So if a consumer truly wanted to use XP instead of Vista they can buy it and use it. However they'll soon realize that using a legacy OS on newer hardware is not worth the trouble.
There is also no mention of MS discontinuing VL's so business are also good to go for a while.

"Terry"

Actually, I was being sarcastic.
I guess if Vista was selling really good, they were going to pull XP anyways, but since there seems to still be as plenty demand for XP, it of course makes sense to Pull it. It wouldn't look good at the end of the year if XP tied or beat Vista in sales.
I made a statement earlier about whether Vista was going to be a dud and that the consumers would vote with their wallets. I guess Microsoft isn't interested in seeing the results of that election.
If I'm a Linux fan I think this is great news and I would hope that Microsoft keeps doing this with every OS release.

On 4/12/2007 10:52 AM On a whim, poatt pounded out on the keyboard

Priceless...
Terry
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On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:59:41 -0500, "Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" wrote:

I can live with XP. It woks just fine on our business clients. Vista is going in the wrong direction and its not cost effective and it never will be.
I think this is a huge mistake by Microsoft. Especially with Ubuntu gaining ground faster each day. They will have a new operating system (Gutsy Gibbon) out by October 2007...just about the time Microsoft is planning to abandon XP.
I'm really tired of Microsoft's games...especially their licensing and activation policies. And the DRM thing was really not needed...really stupid thing to do to customers.
Microsoft has pushed me into looking at a Linux solution...and No it won't be Novell.

Hi Justin: How are you and Adam doing today? After deep pondering, I can only question: Why stick with an obsolete operating system, when you can install the latest and greatest for free. My customers are tired of their Windows 98 OEM and they are more than happy with their Linux replacement which reads all their USB ports without any special drivers. They can now hook up their cameras and memory cards on their old USB 1.1. They dont ask for much. They like to play on the net. Do pogo. Get their email without worrying about viruses. Burn Cd's with the free included programs. Watch movies that they download. And guess what they can do all of this at the same time, without worrying about that old 98 failing them because they have too many windows open. Some of my customers are poor. They buy their computers from the Shopper at $75 a throw. Old 98 is corrupt. Call me and I install a decent up-to-date operating system that runs much smoother and faster than the original ever did. We dont have to include the cost of the operating system, because there is no cost, at least to them. Nice, huh?
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:54:54 -0700, Justin wrote:

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That's funny since automakers are using Windows to control their cars' on-board computers.
microsoft.com/presspass/features/2000/sept00/09-27bosch.mspx
Tom Lake

"Bill"

I'm fine. How could I possibly speak for someone else?

I don’t know. Why stick with an obsolete operating system?

That covers USB, now what about everything else required to run various software on retail shelves?

You got one.

I use free ones as well.

Ditto.

??? Ditto.

You are talking about a very small group of people. Who here bought their main machine at $75 and expect it to do all this great stuff?

No, that blows. They are stuck running Linux apps and can not take part in all the awesome apps waiting for them at their local computer store. For people that can only afford $75 for a machine, that's the best they can obtain and more power to them.
With that out of the way, let's try this again:
Older machines already have a licensed OS. Pulling XP off shelves does not affect machines already bought. So it's unclear as to what your point is with Vista Basic not running on old machines has to do with anything? By the end of the year there will be no reason for a consumer to purchase a "home" machine with XP over Vista with the exception of preference. Vista will run on those new machines just fine.
How long was Win98 OEM available after WinXP was released?
There is also no mention of XP retail being discontinued. So if a consumer truly wanted to use XP instead of Vista they can buy it and use it. However they'll soon realize that using a legacy OS on newer hardware is not worth the trouble.
There is also no mention of MS discontinuing VL's so business are also good to go for a while.

"John Locke"

Much agreed.

Please explain how you have come to this conclusion. Vista costs the same as XP (aside from Ultimate). Moving forward with Vista costs the same as with XP. Unless you are referring to a "need" to upgrade ALL machines within a business at any cost which I agree, would be silly.

You misunderstood the article. MS is going to stop licensing OEM copies of XP. Not abandon XP altogether.

Tom Lake wrote:

Oh yea, that's the LAST THING we friggin need"
"Drivers can benefit from navigation help, access to roadside assistance, news and traffic updates that save time and improve safety, plus email and instant messaging that can help them keep in touch with work and family from the road."
INSTANT MESSANGING and E-MAIL in a car!?!?
Aren't cell phones *bad* enough?
But aside those concerns...
That is only running on whatever computer controls the LCD that the driver should *not* be paying attention to.
The actual engine management however is not done by windows or anything even remotely like it. That is done by microcontrollers that will never see windows.
Stephan 2003 Yamaha R6
君のこと思い出す日なんてないのは 君のこと忘れたときがないから

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:00:12 -0400, Stephan Rose wrote:

Darn! So we *won't* see the day when we turn the ignition key to the right to shut down the engine?
Joey DoWop Dee Remember: It is To Laugh

"poatt"

None of the above, as I stated above in Terry's post. I was being sarcastic about it. I've been accused of spreading my dogma around (which was telling someone to buy XP over Vista when they bought a new PC) so I thought I would just wear the Pro-Microsoft hat and take the stance that anyone who buys XP today is just a mindless loser who can't possible understand the hundreds of ways that Vista will enrich their lives.

Its all 0's and 1's <g>
"Stephan Rose" : : The actual engine management however is not done by windows or anything even : remotely like it. That is done by microcontrollers that will never see : windows.

would need to upgrade hardware, buy Vista llicenses and replace software apps that won't run under Vista. I have to spend a bunch of money. From my perspective, I get nothing for my money sicne XP is already doing exactly what I need. There is absolutely NO point in upgrading to Vista.

the OEM shops to load Vista. Since Microsoft is stopping sale of OEM licenses, this will open the door for more vendors to install Linux. Some vendors are already reluctant to install Vista, SP1 or not. And customer demand for an alternative to Microsoft is beginning grow. Ubuntu has been looking very good lately and I suspect the Gutsy release will be even better.

"Justin"

Beginning with Windows XP, Microsoft assumed everyone using their computer knows nothing and needs their hand held through every step. I *like* the plain screen of Windows 2000. That's because I use *PROGRAMS* to do my work and I look at the desktop as little as possible.
Vista was designed to look like a video game. There is NOTHING in Vista I find the least bit attractive. There is nothing in Vista that makes me want to ditch my present operating system for a new one. There is nothing new in Vista except for more pictures to look at and more things to go wrong.
Scotty said it best. I think it was in the first Star Trek movie, "The more they tinker with the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain".
Windows 98 deserved to be replaced. It was very unstable. I have Windows 2000 and Windows Server 2000 running since inception and I have never had a problem. Alas, I had to go with Windows XP when one of my primary use programs came out with a new version that would not run under Windows 2000. If not for that, I would have TWO computers running Windows 2000 instead of ONE.
Vista? Not in my house!

"emanon"

You can turn all that off. The resulting desktop looks a lot like W2K.

"Tom Lake"

My head unit in my truck is run by WinCE. I have XP on my built in computer as well. All work very well.

"Stephan Rose"

Well yeah, neither will an elevator controller :) or a traffic signal. It's not the kind of hardware to be controlled by that kind of software.

I will only install Windows XP or Linux on a customer's computer. I will not install Vista. When the time comes that Vista fails, just as Windows XP fails and an operating system needs to be reinstalled, I will offer them Linux as an alternative. At that point, I will reinstall Vista, if the customer requests it, but not before I present them with all the alternatives: Dual boot, virtual machine (Vista Ultimate), or Linux standalone. Currently, there is a negative atmosphere surrounding Vista. People on the street do not want Vista. Whether this situation improves with a much needed Service Pack is yet to be seen. Microsoft is pushing Vista, just like they push IE 7.0, without regard to the negative experiences of their customers.

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"John Locke"

So you haven't been able to integrate any new features of Vista into your business process. Ok. Fair enough. However why would you NEED to upgrade old machines to move forward with Vista?

Not to move forward you wouldn't.

Yup, those you would have to wait for.

No you don't.

Interesting point. XP does exactly what you need and there is no need to ever change. I've watched business hit bottom with that perspective. Either way what do you lose from buying a new machine (when needed) with Vista installed versus XP?

Ok, if you understood it "perfectly" then can you explain how MS is going to ABANDON XP? Please link us to that text.

Yup. And? What do you think they did with Win95? Win98? So I guess this is the same rehash of all the past garbage?

True, it's certainly more viable today then it was 5 years ago. I guess we'll see if that actually happens.

Where?

It'll certainly be interesting to look at it. It always is.

You are missing the point. Indeed they have a licensed obsolete operating system. They can not upgrade to something newer Vista or even XP because their machine wont handle it, but they can upgrade to Linux and get more speed and utility out of their machine than when 98 was installed. They do not need to run to their store to purchase more software, because it is all available to them in the archives. And these programs WILL work with their old machine and are extremely simple to install. If they need 98 for some old favorite program, it is easy to install 98 in a virtual machine which they can use with that program. We are talking old computers here. Don't throw them away. Give them a Second Life. Install Linux.

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You're branching off into your own new conversation. But ok:
"Bill"

You are talking about machines that can not even run WinXP? These machine are good for nothing. On the off chance you find one that works well enough to use as an internet machine then great! They can not run any current software and what software they can run even via Linux is barley adequate by today's standards.
The hardware is at the end of it's life and it most likely failing. It might still work but not anywhere near as well as when it was new.

This Linux software you speak of can NOT be compared to today's software. Not even close.

For me, they aren't worth the headache. Too much time and duct tape is required to keep them running.

In message Stephan Rose wrote:

IM and email is far better, because it doesn't require an instant response, the driver can choose when and where to deal with the message.
Would you rather I deal with a "Hi honey, can you get some milk" while I'm in the middle of a lane change, or I wait 45 seconds until I'm at a red light?
"Gee, Bill what do you want to do tonight?" "The same thing we do every night Steve. Try to take over the world!"

In message DanS wrote:

That is not the case If capacitors start to fail, you'll find hardware that works when it's power is 100% stable, but when an optical drive spins up the voltages drop slightly, different things happen.
"Gee, Bill what do you want to do tonight?" "The same thing we do every night Steve. Try to take over the world!"

In message DanS wrote:

The key is real-time. Windows is not a real-time OS. The current kernel isn't, can't, and won't be, nor was it designed to operate in that fashion.
"Gee, Bill what do you want to do tonight?" "The same thing we do every night Steve. Try to take over the world!"

"DanS"

That's not true. Memory is a perfect example. Over time (5 years+) memory sticks degrade and do not perform as they did when they were new. Error correction helped to fix that but the chips still degrade. This is easily seen with a machine that used to run Win98 5+ years ago just fine. Yet today a clean install of Win98 on that same machine runs like crap.
That can also be a combination of other issues which brings up another good example, the PSU. It's internal components can only last "so long". After 5+ years they start to fail and do not produce "like new" power levels. This will really throw the machine out of whack and possibly start to cause other issues on it's own.
A PCs internal components can only take so much power, energy and HEAT before they degrade past decent performance levels.
Just because it turns on, doesn't mean it's running like new.