Oh My God!
I couldn't believe my eyes when I read this.
Vista Expert Andy Rathbone author of “Windows Vista for Dummies,” “Windows XP for Dummies,” “Window 98 for Dummies” and "Upgrading and Fixing PCs For Dummies," wrote: Why I Don't Like Vista.
itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/article.php/3669701

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 22:36:42 +1000, <.> wrote:

All your mronic posts, and you're still a drunk. Nobody forgot.

Well he hasn't learnt anything since 1998. One would expect 98 for dummies, 2000 for intermediate users, and XP for Professionals, and Vista for wizards. "john"

<.>

we're all anxiously awaiting your detailed analysis and rebuttal... ....unless "he still is a dummie" is the best you can do.
whoops, sorry, ...forgot who I was talking to.
======================================= MICROSOFT = Most Intelligent Customers Realize Our Software Only Fools Teenagers =======================================

All those versions and he still is a dummie.
"JagChan"

"john"

As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. - Josh Billings

-Michael

"JagChan"

why the "Oh My God!"? is truth that rare these days??
======================================= "If you can't make it good, at least make it look good." - Bill Gates =======================================

JagChan I have to admit I agree with Andy. If people go back through my posts they will see that, during the latter part of 2006 I said that, in my opinion, Vista wouldn't be ready until 'at least' the middle of 2007. I actually believe that if Microsoft hadn't been in such a hurry to release Vista, Vista would have actually turned out a better product.
Even in the released version there are still numerous bugs. As Andy says Not all third party security software works with Vista. For that matter most other software doesn't work with Vista. Okay this is partly due to the fact that software developer's were not keeping pace with Vista prior to its release and upon release there was no immediate software updates to make third party software work with Vista. The same, unfortunately, applies to device drivers. The hardware manufacturer's have been a big let down here, especially to people who are only using Vista on their machines. Fortunately, i dual boot with XP and Vista so i do have a choice.
A point worth mentioning regarding drivers, from my own perspective, is HP Printers. I have an HP Printer that works perfectly with XP. If i use it from Vista (using vistas' generic printer driver - incidentally developed by HP) the printing is useless. Why? you ask. Simply because the generic driver isn't fully featured. In other words there is no way of calibrating the printer head like there is in XP so most, not all, of the text is slightly offset when printing. All i gte from HP is 'we are working on a fully featured driver' When? I ask. 'Don't know, you'll have to make do with what you've got 'or' buy another printer that 'is' vista compatible. Yes that's a good idea, maybe a Canon or Lexmark?
John Barnett MVP Associate Expert Windows - Shell/User
Web: xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Web: vistasupport.mvps.org
The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this mail/post..
"JagChan"

Learn to at least spell before bashing someone.
Also your wife called, she said you left your ability to not be an ass at home.
"Adam Albright"

<.>

I can agree with that. You of course being the "one"
======================================= They say when you play that Microsoft CD backward you can hear satanic messages. .... but that's nothing. If you play it forward it will install Windows. =======================================

"JagChan"

I'm not sure why you could not believe it... a pretty accurate assessment I'd say.

If you say Oh My God regarding the "dummie" guy, you should get the Enquirer. You'll have to go to Church!

"JagChan"

What the article mostly distills down to is that he doesn't like the changes to the UI and prefers the way the XP UI worked. That's fair enough. Most people prefer what they know. That doesn't make it better. Let's go through the article one point at a time.
Security problems - So far there has been one exploit found for Vista. This exploit is greatly mitigated by the security features in Vista compared to XP. During the time Vista has been out it has had less security updates than any other current OS. I don't think anyone believes that Vista is invulnerable but it is more secure than previous versions of Windows which he seems to be recommending.
Aero Display Confusion - I like Aero. He doesn't. I find it much better on a wide screen monitor than the XP interface but that is a personal opinion. He states most laptops can only run the Windows Classic theme. This is true of all older systems, not just laptops, that don't have an Aero capable graphics card. I was shopping yesterday. Every Windows based laptop I saw was running Aero. I'm typing this on a sub $900.00 laptop running Aero. This laptop came with XP and was upgraded to Vista. It was advertised as Vista capable.
User Account Control Nags - This has been debated many times in this newsgroup. I don't want to start the debate again. It's easy enough to turn off if you want. He even points out how easy it is. I think anyone who does so is a fool but I'm sure many people think I'm a fool.
Hidden Display Settings - I help a lot of novice computer users. They actually find this part of the user interface easier to figure out and use. Personally I agree with him on this. I'd like a switch for an advanced user that worked more like the XP interface, especially for display settings.
Missing Folder Menus - I missed this at first. Now I don't. Menus do seem to be going out of fashion. I haven't made up my mind yet. Only time will tell us if this is a good idea. It's not limited to Vista. OS X seems to be going that route as well. So do many programs.
No Off Switch - I agreed 100% with this criticism until I got a computer that properly supported advanced sleep in Vista. I think Microsoft may have been too early with this change. Perhaps sleep instead of off should depend on the BIOS of the computer and how well ACPI is supported. With most current systems off is a better option than sleep.
Lack of Drivers - This is definitely a problem. It is a valid reason for not using Vista. Because of the improved security it will be a while before optimized drivers are a reality especially for Vista x64. Eventually this will be a plus for Vista but currently it is the biggest minus.
Forced Software Upgrades - This is the second biggest minus for Vista. Like drivers it will be solved by time.
No Killer App - For me the killer app is Vista itself.
Overall I agree with him that currently there is no great reason to upgrade a well running XP system to Vista. I disagree with him about the improved security and the UI. I can't imagine anyone who really understands how Windows works actually thinking that XP can be made as secure as Vista. Any process can alter any other process in XP. User processes and drivers can alter services and vice versa. With the default settings in Vista this can't happen. The UI is totally personal opinion and is pretty hard to argue one way or the other. You either like it or you don't. There are some things I don't like but overall I prefer it to the XP or Windows Classic UI.
Kerry Brown Microsoft MVP - Shell/User vistahelp.ca
"JagChan"

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 09:43:11 -0700, "Kerry Brown" wrote:

Or... hackers like everybody else just need time to get comfortable with what's new in Vista and by Labor Day we may see Vista attacked by all kinds of exploits. I hope not, but that too is the pattern other versions of Windows went through. You can't tell how "secure" any OS is right out of box, lets wait and see. Remember, when XP first came out it was touted by Microsoft as the most secure Windows ever. Didn't work out that way did it. Prior to any Service Packs, XP had more security holes in than a pound of sliced Swiss cheese.

I like Aero.

No arguement there. People should or shouldn't use UAC based on their particular needs. Risks, real or imagined should drive the decision to turn it on or off. Again the problem is Microsoft forced it on us and that was dumb and caused much annoyance and needless frustration for countless millions because of it. HORRIBLE Microsoft marketing. They totally blew a big chance to change user attititutes.

I'd hardly call Vista's prettier face and the handful of added bells and whistles a "killer" application. Seems more like a badly needed facelift more than anything else.

<.>

There are still plenty of dummies to buy the books. Hell, I've been into micros since the Altair 8800 (and computers in general since '63) and I still get some useful pointers from the "for Dummies" series.
Tom Lake

"...hasn't learnt..." "...dummie..." How about: "...hasn't learned..." "...dummy..." Sorry...
<.>

Thank you, Kerry, for bringing some sanity into this thread. "Kerry Brown"

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 14:27:30 -0400, Charles W Davis wrote:

learn verb (past learned or chiefly Brit. learnt) [ trans. ] Sorry...
Joey DoWop Dee Remember: It is To Laugh

Yeah right.. when someone else complains its ok...
When I say the exact same things you guys call me a troll.. lol


"JagChan"

:) I feel the same way. Looking at things from an advanced perspective you sometimes miss the most simplest things. I'm not a big fan of the Dummy books, but I still pick one up now and then. They do have things that a lot of people overlook quite often.
And you can never know everything... I've learned shortcuts from people that just got a computer a few months before. They needed the shortcut so they can do things faster. Hey, I didn't know. I knew the old way (more tedious) and still used it. You learn something new everyday, and hopefully people don't have their heads so far up their own bahookies that they can take advice and tips from people that they label "newbies" or "dummies".
Dustin Harper dharper vistarip.com vistarip.com
"Tom Lake"

While most of my issues have been caused by third party drivers or software, Vista has been working awesome for me. I do think it should have waited another 6 months (seemed rushed through the betas). I have not had many problems, but I know MANY others do. Microsoft needs to work with the OEM's and hardware manufacturers to get things up to speed with Vista. It's all part of the OS process. They aren't doing much follow through with this OS.
Blame it on Ballmer? I don't know, but it's not getting good press for Microsoft.
Dustin Harper dharper vistarip.com vistarip.com
"John Barnett MVP"

Kerry Brown wrote:

Hi Kerry. Which one is that?

Microsoft was a fool for UAC. It borrows from an idea that came from the unix/linux kernel, but in *nix, you have to provide the root password everytime which is much more secure that clicking on a button in a pop up screen such as UAC has.

More clicks = less efficient.

I still miss them!

Agreed.

Totally agree. The other problem here is the fact that the Vista logo means nothing. Bad hardware/drivers have it already and people run into problems.

Agreed.

Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group: protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html
Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks): "poor little MADAM albright still got your knickers twisted. how are we supposed to believe you know anything about computers when you cannot even dress your self. oh and pull that skirt down."
"Good poets borrow; great poets steal." - T. S. Eliot

Adam Albright wrote:

They already are:
vista Protected Processes Bypassed
it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/07/1426200 alex-ionescu.com/?p=34 alex-ionescu.com/?p=35
"Security Researcher Alex Ionescu strikes again, this time with a proof of concept program that will arbitrarily enable and foremost disable the protection of so-called 'protected processes' in Windows Vista. Not only threatening Vista DRM and friends, it's also another step towards hardened and even more annoying malware. Normally, only specially signed processes made by special companies (decided by Microsoft) can be protected, but now the bad guys can protect any evil process they want, including the latest version of their own keylogger, spambot, or worm, as well as unprotect any 'good' one."

Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group: protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html
Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks): "poor little MADAM albright still got your knickers twisted. how are we supposed to believe you know anything about computers when you cannot even dress your self. oh and pull that skirt down."
"Good poets borrow; great poets steal." - T. S. Eliot

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:12:53 -0700, "Dustin Harper" wrote:

Here's my all time favorite "dummies" books: <big grin>
amazon.com/Sex-Dummies-Dr-Ruth-Westheimer/dp/1568843844

This was a well reasoned article making some logical points. The vast majority of your posts and links you post are of the variety "Vista stinks" but make no attempt to say why it stinks.
Kerry Brown Microsoft MVP - Shell/User vistahelp.ca
"kirk jim"

OEM's are already seeing reduced sales of Vista which, basically, speaks volumes. I am beginning to think that Vista is another ME. I have to be franks and say that, although Microsoft advertise Vista with the WOW factor, it doesn't make me go WOW.
Many people would say, well why is an MVP complaining about Vista when he should be extolling it to the world - Wrong! Okay i beta tested Vista and have been an MVP for over six years now, but it doesn't mean to say I have to agree with Microsoft on every issue, Vista included.
The MVPs role, basically speaking, is not only to give technical advise to the newsgroups but also to be the eyes and ears of Microsoft. It is the MVPs, through the newsgroups, that see and hear the mood of the populous (i.e, Microsoft customer base). I suppose many people assume MVPs are simply Microsoft servants (maybe that's why we get so much flack) but actually we are not. If the MVPs don't like something then Microsoft are told in no uncertain terms. Whether Microsoft do anything about it is left up to them, but when the MVPs can see that a problem exists they will go through the appropriate channels to get the point across and, as i told my local MVP lead a few months ago, if i have beef about anything i lock on and, like a rottweiller, don't let go. Unfortunately, my beef is Windows Vista!
John Barnett MVP Associate Expert Windows - Shell/User
Web: xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Web: vistasupport.mvps.org
The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this mail/post..
"Dustin Harper"

Some of the customer reviews on that book are hilarious! :)
Used from 47 cents. Good book to leave laying around when the in-laws show up! :-) Or as a gift for a couple with no kids!
Dustin Harper dharper vistarip.com vistarip.com
"Adam Albright"

As an MVP, I'd expect you to give feedback to whoever your lead is. If there is a problem, you have more resources that I would at getting them resolved. Even if it is a major one like an OS. I love Vista, but I've been extremely lucky with it so far.
But, Microsoft does need to fix a few issues with it. And you are a closer step than we are to Microsoft. I don't expect MVP's to bow to Microsoft and their products... I'm sure they don't want you to. If there is a problem, it needs to be addressed. Change is good, and most of the time its a good thing.
I am looking forward to SP1 for Vista... Yea, and for FSX (end of April!).
Dustin Harper dharper vistarip.com vistarip.com
"John Barnett MVP"

I have an el cheapo Lexmark attached to my XP, and I use it to print from Vista computer on a LAN. So, it DOES work!
"John Barnett MVP" wrote:

"Nina DiBoy"

Those articles are interesting. I don't have the technical knowledge to know for sure if that method could be used to hack the kernel. I don't think it could and neither does the author "Being able to play with the PMP application isn't really what I was interested in, since most of the high-level security is in the kernel anyway." The main warning seems to be that malware could make itself protected and thus be harder to find and remove. This has been talked about before by other security professionals. My understanding is that the APIs opened up to Symantec and others had something to do with this. That is always a problem with security. It doesn't just apply to computers. Once something gets inside the secure area how do you detect it? You have to use a different method than you use to detect things that are outside trying to get in. That's pretty standard security protocol.
I'm sure Vista will be exploited by malware. It is only a matter of time. What will be interesting to see is how deep the malware can get into the system and how easy it is to get rid of it without destroying the system. From what I have read, admittedly mostly from Microsoft, it is much harder for malware to get very deep into the system. If it does it may equally harder to get rid of it. Only time will give us the answer.
Kerry Brown Microsoft MVP - Shell/User vistahelp.ca