As someone who has built his own systems for many years Someone told me I was wasting money paying for the full retail version of Vista (especially at UK prices) and that I can't do a clean install with the up-grade, they suggested I buy an OEM version. I've always regarded OEM versions as software specific to a particular manufacturer and don't want to boot up and find a 'Dell' splash screen, for example.
Exactly what consititutes an OEM version and are there real differences?
Ron

Ron O'Brien spake thusly on 2/23/2007 5:06 AM:

Good advice. :-)

No. The only thing that's different is the license and the packaging. The DVD is otherwise identical. The key is ...well the product key. It will be OEM which won't allow it to be installed on any other computer than the original (first) one it's installed on.

In the case of Windows, there is no difference. In answer to the rest of your question , see this : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_equipment_manufacturer#Software

And one more thing I forgot to mention.
This is your "official tech support". ;-)
In other words, you get no tech support if you purchase an OEM version as typically it's provided by the ....OEM or VAR (Dell, HP, the local custom computer shop down the street...).

Yes it will, but you would have to phone up Microsoft and explain you have transferred your license which is perfectly legal. It happens with retail versions exactly the same.
Why pay £200 or so more in the UK for Retail for "90 days" of help from Microsoft, when half the problems you have they refuse to resolve and claim is down to your hardware. Like my issue of the Performance Control Panel disappearing, apprantly thats due to hardware... Yeah sure it is.
While your there, vote at: petitions.pm.gov.uk/VistaOvercharge/
Its ridclous how Microsoft thinks British Citizens should pay double what they charge there own... Or then again vote with your pocket.
"Scott"

"Andy Snook"

Actually you may not TRANSFER an OEM license it is irrevocably tied to the first device it is installed to. If you change components within that device you can telephone activate but if you are trying to transfer an OEM copy to another machine even in the event of the first machine being destroyed this is not allowed. Read the OEM EULA again it covers this.
As regards the cost; the economics are far more complex then just a double price. Look at the cost as a percentage of the salary of lets say an IT person in the UK vs. the same job in the US and now the same job in India. It is not just one price set and converted at exchange rates world wide. There is very little point in going on about the price - if you don;t like your local pricing shop elsewhere for your goods. This is just as true for software as a DVD movie , a pair of jeans or a car. Mike Brannigan

"Ron O'Brien"

Dell and others customize their OEM versions with their logos and stuff, but if you just go and buy an OEM version from a computer supplier it will look just like the retail version. You won't have a Dell logo on it. <g>
OEM versions can't be transferred onto a different machine than they're originally installed on.
OEM versions can't do upgrades, only clean install (by default they're not destructive and move the old files to windows.old).
OEM versions get no support directly from Microsoft.
I told my friends to get the OEM version. £120.23 vs. £318.99. Easy choice.
Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. windowsresource.net/
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You can do a "clean install" from an OEM or Retail Upgrade Vista version. I have the OEM Business version ($149 US from Newegg.com) that I installed clean using the instructions in the link below.
winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_upgrade_clean.asp
The above link doesn't specify that one needs Retail -vs- OEM upgrade versions. You'll notice the pictures show a Retail upgrade version that he used.
Keith
"Ron O'Brien"

"Mike Brannigan"

and claims he could buy me a full retail version over there at a similar price to the OEM offered in the UK
I do disaggree with you on your supposition that it is cheaper to produce for retail a product in USA. Marketing alone is a lot more expensive in the USA, so to advertsing (especially TV), salaries to IT staff in New York I do know are a lot more than UK and cost of just opening and running a retail premises in New York, considerably more expensive that London. Talking to the guy to advised me to go the OEM route (he's a small-ish retail outfit) he claims profit margins on Microsoft Vista are at very best 17%, so Microsofts assertion that UK retails demand more profit margins are also unfounded. As for volume sales, well of course USA is likely to sell more copies, but still via hundreds of thousands of retails and when you are distributing huge quantities and having to ship them to the UK, well, the law of dimminished returns kicks in and the shipping cost becomes negligable. Microssoft also claim there are 'fundamental differences' between the USA and European version, but have never actually said what these differences are. I doubt they exist. I saw a USA sold retail version of XP Pro, it looked exactly yhe same to the UK version I have, not even a difference in the box. The only way they could get away with such a claim to if the language and dictionary was different but, as we all know the product ships with all major languages installed. No, it's just rip off Britain!

"Ron O'Brien"

What you were told is incorrect.
1. You can do a clean install of an upgrade version. Of course, it is up to you to make sure your use of Vista's upgrade is legitimate i.e. that one has previously purchased a 'full' license (which is clear for use on the computer) or an 'oem' license (to pair with the computer).
2. OEM software *is not* specific to the manufacturer unless the manufacturer has worked the ISO/Install files etc. to their liking. Otherwise, a generic OEM disc is "all Microsoft" so to speak - what installs is virtually the same as the full retail.
Generic OEM discs are used by many computer shops to build computers. It usually is had at a lower price than full retail. It comes with a System Builders License (pairs the copy to the computer) for the system builder and an EULA for the buyer of the computer.
See Paul Thurrott's article and PDFs for licensing terms. Watch the long URLs:
[How to Clean Install Windows Vista with Upgrade Media] winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_upgrade_clean.asp
[Microsoft's System Builders License - link to PDF file] oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf
[Vista Home Basic / Home Premium / Ultimate EULA - link to PDF file] download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/Windows%20Vista_Home%20Basic_English_2cd69850-7680-4987-8b1e-59a3d405c074.pdf
Saucy

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:06:57 +0000, Ron O'Brien wrote:

Frankly, I think you'd be ahead to wait for SP1, anyway.

"Andy Snook"

I thought that I read that the EU required that MS make changes for product sold in the EU. Also, what about the fines that MS had to pay to the EU? Where was that money coming from? If it is more expensive to sell any product in the EU, then the product sales must pay for the extra expenses.

For all practical purposes, fines such as that are another tax. Like any other expenses, the fines are ultimately passed on to the consumer.
But that goes a long way from explaining the price differences between US and the EU. However it seems many products, not just Microsoft are similarly higher priced than in the US.
Instead of looking at just Microsoft since they have a new product highlighting the price inequity, determine exactly what affects the wider market causing higher prices on many products. Work to find that solution, if it exists and solve price problems beyond Microsoft.
Jupiter Jones [MVP] www3.telus.net/dandemar dts-l.org
"Mellowed"

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" ..

In Arabic the words for "tax" and "fine" are the same. (Something like "djetha" if I recall correctly).
I remember being tremendously amused when I first learned this: A tax is a fine you pay for being subject to a government.
Bob kanyak.com

I've transfered OEM licenses in the past, when an old PC dies, say one that I own I'm not going to forget about the OS I forked out money on and reuse it, ring up to activate explain my old PC died and I am installing its copy of XP and they have given me the code, no problem.
So I dont know where you got this idea that they wont let you transfer from....
"Mike Brannigan"

"Andy Snook"

Read the EULA.
Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. windowsresource.net/
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Microsoft changed all that in the wake of the Anti-Trust Decisions and Subsequent Court Cases that have cost Microsoft billions.
Blame the Pre-Bush Supreme Court for your dilemma.
DSH
"Paul Smith"

D. Spencer Hines"

No the changes were about the sale of generic OEM software to home builders. The EULA still clearly states the software is NOT transferable.
Lets look at the EULA from an OEM Windows Vista Home Premium EULAID:VISTA_RM.0_CONSUMER_OEM_en-US
First and most important point, the one where your OEM software is tied to the device.
2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. The software license is permanently assigned to the device with which you acquired the software. That device is the "licensed device." a. Licensed Device. You may install one copy of the software on the licensed device. You may use the software on up to two processors on that device at one time. You may not use the software on any other device.
So there you have it - ties to the licensed device.
Now let's look at the transfer rights.
15. TRANSFER TO A THIRD PARTY. You may transfer the software directly to a third party only with the licensed device. You may not keep any copies of the software or any earlier version. Before any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software. The transfer must include the Certificate of Authenticity label.
So you cannot transfer the software to another device or resell it in any way other then on the original "licensed device".
This is really very simple stuff that you agree to abide by during install. Mike Brannigan "

"Andy Snook"

See my response to D.Spencer Hine below where you can clearly see this is the case from your License Agreement for OEM Windows Vista. As another poster said - read your EULA
Mike Brannigan "Andy Snook"

"Mike Brannigan"

Apparently Microsoft's telephone support for re-activations doesn't follow the EULA. Also, what's in the EULA won't necessarily stand up in court. Courts tend to go by what a reasonable person would expect (aka consumer rights).
Gary VanderMolen

"Gary VanderMolen"

Activating and the EULA don't have anything to do with one another other than activation is one one of the stipulations in the EULA. Just because it activates doesn't mean you have a valid license. If you break one of the stipulations in the EULA you don't have a valid license.
Kerry Brown Microsoft MVP - Shell/User vistahelp.ca

"Gary VanderMolen"

Microsoft is doing users a 'favor' if they reactivate Vista, as they have apparently been doing with XP, when you install an OEM version on a different 'device' or if you change out the motherboard to a new make/model.
Anyone purchasing Vista should buy it as if the all of the EULA clauses were going to be fully in force. Just because Microsoft is willing to grant a new key to an OEM licensee doesn't mean that the licensee is now in full compliance with the EULA.
However, Microsoft must be aware of something in law called 'squatters rights' and if they continue to grant these 'favors', they run the risk of challenges to the transferability clause in court.
No, I'm not a lawyer, I've just been pretending to be one trying to understand these EULA issues. :-)
Alan Norton Reviews Including ABIT AN8 SLI, ECS P965T-A & Foxconn 975X7AB-8EKRS2H Motherboards Guide to Choosing the Right Version Of Vista For You - Vista Confusion Article Arizona Pics No Spam - Just a gratuitous plea for more hardware to test :-) mindspring.com/~anorton1/

"Pecos"

only reference I see is to the 'licenced device', which was 'supplied with the software'. My OEM DVD did not come with any hardware.

"Brian W"

Brian, the information I used is here: discuss.pcmag.com/forums/1004364651/ShowPost.aspx
John backs up his information to links on the Microsoft website, but you need a logon ID to see it.
The OEM software is for use by system builders only.
My research backs up his comments. For the full details, visit my site. Alan Norton Reviews Including ABIT AN8 SLI, ECS P965T-A & Foxconn 975X7AB-8EKRS2H Motherboards Guide to Choosing the Right Version Of Vista For You - Vista Confusion Article Arizona Pics No Spam - Just a gratuitous plea for more hardware to test :-) mindspring.com/~anorton1/

Which begs the question what is the "licensed device?" The phrase "... at one time..." indicates that a processor can be changed out and replaced, as long as the software is used on only two maximum processors within the "licensed device." So the processor is not the "licensed device."
What does that leave? The CPU case? Just never change the CPU case.

*rain*drops*

"Mike Brannigan"

According to OEM builder guidance I saw, Microsoft considers the motherboard to be the heart of the "licensed device." You are allowed to change out the motherboard if it develops a defect, but only with the exact same model, no upgrade allowed. If that motherboard is no longer made, you are SOL.
All this is about as useful as discussing how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. The plain fact is that MS has instructed its activation reps to allow OEM reactivations as long as that license isn't in use on more than one computer at a time.
Gary VanderMolen
"*rain*drops*"

"Alan Norton"

motherboard constitutes a new computer, only the 'licenced device', which is a 'partition or blade'. If I read that right, I can change the board and still be in compliance with the EULA.

"Gary VanderMolen"

The EULA does not say anything about the motherboard.

Gary VanderMolen wrote:

That only applies to system builders, not end users who buy a generic OEM and build their own computer.
Alias

Brian W wrote:

Alan is confusing system builders with end users. A lot of MVPs do that. Pay them no mind.
Alias

"Alias"

Which is exactly what I've done.

*rain*drops* wrote:

The issue of OEM licenses and what constitutes the same computer is a can of worms. The EULA doesn't specify what constitutes the same computer, and the EULA is what you agree to. If I had my druthers, all licenses would be the same, with the retail rules, and there wouldn't be such a thing as an OEM license.
There are people here (and elsewhere) who claim that if you change the motherboard, it's a different computer. Although that certainly sounds logical, the OEM EULA does *not* say that. Some of these people will point to a Microsoft site for System Builders (one that can't even be accessed by the general public) that states that changing the motherboard makes it a different computer. Again, the EULA, which is what you agree to, does *not* state that, so as far as I'm concerned, what this site states is irrelevant.
My guess is that if it ever came before a court (which is highly unlikely) and Microsoft ever pointed to that web site, they'd be laughed out of court.
The real issue in my mind is what happens if you change the motherboard and have to reactivate an OEM version over the phone. If you talk to a Microsoft representative and he defends the "motherboard defines the computer" point of view and won't activate you, you're out of luck unless you want to take Microsoft to court (which is probably highly unlikely).
My own view is that you might be able to successfully argue in court that, silly as it may sound, the computer is defined by the case, since that's where Microsoft requires that the product key sticker be affixed. You could therefore change everything inside the case, and it would still be the same computer.
However, don't rely on that last paragraph unless you're willing to go to court over it. I wouldn't be.
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup

"Alias"

Only system builders are supposed to buy the OEM version per the OEM EULA. If you build your own computer you should qualify as a 'system builder'. Being a system builder would make you required to followed Microsoft's requirements for system builders. Microsoft has opened up a whole can of worms by selling the OEM version retail. Ken outlines these issues very well - see his post. Like he said, these 'System Builder Requirements' are not even accessible to the general public, making it rather difficult for the small retail builder to follow them.
And no, I am neither a lawyer or a MVP. I didn't even know what that acronym meant until a couple of days ago. I know some of this information because I wanted to be a fully informed buyer before I bought Vista and found out that I couldn't do something with the half priced OEM version versus the full retail version. I have posted my research at my website to *hopefully* :-) help others out there who are confused with a one-stop web page that would answer some of these issues and help them choose the right version of Vista.
If you will notice, my article is titled: Vista Confusion And Few Are Aware of the True Magnitude of the Confusion, Yet
So, while I have tried to clear up some of the confusion I discuss there, only Microsoft can really do that.
Alan Norton Reviews Including ABIT AN8 SLI, ECS P965T-A & Foxconn 975X7AB-8EKRS2H Motherboards Guide to Choosing the Right Version Of Vista For You - Vista Confusion Article Arizona Pics No Spam - Just a gratuitous plea for more hardware to test :-) mindspring.com/~anorton1/

Pecos wrote:

Not where I live. *Anyone* can buy a generic OEM in Spain. In fact only *one* store offers retail Ultimate at almost $US800 (220 OEM). The retail Ultimate upgrade goes for $US522. Home Basic N goes for $US400 (98 OEM without the "N").
It doesn't take a genius to see why people here buy OEMs instead of Retail.
Alias