the more I hear about vista...
The more I want to stay with XP
this is scary.... no thank you

In message "john" wrote:

Then don't. Insert something clever here.

"john"

John,
As keeps being said - if you were an alien and you came to earth and landed in a hospital then your impression of earth people would be one of sickness etc. So it is if you only hang around here or other support groups - they are there for the users having problems. They do not give you the picture of the huge number of users that have no problems (at this point you usually get some response about not all users know how to get to these groups - true but the numbers are still massively in favor of the majority not having any problems at all with Vista) There are huge number of machines shipped with Vista - massive number of OEM and retail sales of Vista and hundreds of thousands of business users deployed and using Vista since last year.
So maybe the decision should be more specific to you and have a go and see if YOU have will have any issues. So your own research: look at your hardware and software, look for any driver issues and software compatibility issues, the decide.
We saw all this before with 2000 to XP and XP to XPSP2, all now forgotten
Mike Brannigan

In message %23ZRZiROVHHA.4188 TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl, john Proclaimed from the tallest tower:

How DARE you suggest that Vista may have a few teething problems (or even some rather scary potential DRM issues)...
<Fpssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.....>
Regards, Chris. (Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)

This is just FUD. ============================= If you don't know what FUD is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear%2C_uncertainty_and_doubt - Fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) is a sales or marketing strategy of disseminating negative (and vague) information on a competitor's product. The term originated to describe disinformation tactics in the computer hardware industry and has since been used more broadly. FUD is a manifestation of the appeal to fear. ========== Definition ========== FUD was first defined by Gene Amdahl after he left IBM to found his own company, Amdahl Corp.: "FUD is the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds of potential customers who might be considering Amdahl products."[1] The term has also been attributed to veteran Morgan Stanley computer analyst Ulrich Weil.
As Eric S. Raymond writes: "The idea, of course, was to persuade buyers to go with safe IBM gear rather than with competitors' equipment. This implicit coercion was traditionally accomplished by promising that Good Things would happen to people who stuck with IBM, but Dark Shadows loomed over the future of competitors' equipment or software. After 1991 the term has become generalized to refer to any kind of disinformation used as a competitive weapon."[2]
By spreading questionable information about the drawbacks of less well known products, an established company can discourage decision-makers from choosing those products over its wares, regardless of the relative technical merits. This is a recognized phenomenon, epitomized by the traditional axiom of purchasing agents that "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM equipment". The result is that many companies' IT departments buy software that they know to be technically inferior because upper management is more likely to recognize the brand.
"john"

Mike Brannigan wrote:

Indeed we did. XP was abysmal until well after SP1. Which is why wise users will wait for the rest of the lemmings to find all the holes and for Microsoft to plug them.
There is absolutely no reason for anyone to move to Vista at the present time.
Paul-B

"Paul-B"

Well my tens of thousands of business clients would beg to differ. Luckily your opinion and its sweeping generalization is your own and users and businesses can make their own appropriately informed decision.
Mike Brannigan

"Paul-B"

In your opinion, which a lot of people would strongly disagree with.
Paul Smith, Yeovil, UK. Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User. windowsresource.net/
*Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:43:48 +0200, john wrote:

Hey, I'm having fun with it. I only got Vista so I can make legitimate complaints about it. Your complaint is not legit if you don't actually own a copy.

"Pipboy"

I'll second that!
VISTA; the new and improved Pandora's Box! :-0

On 20 Feb 2007 13:13:34 GMT, Paul-B wrote:

It's thanks to us "lemmings" that the issues do get fixed. People like you are just OS parasites.

Paul Smith wrote:

What reasons would anyone have to move from XP? And if so, why now?
Paul-B

Pipboy wrote:

LOL!
"People like you"?
You know nothing about me. My many business clients are happily and succesfully using XP Pro without the need to tread the route of an untried bug-ridden alternative, which is how anyone with any objectivity would describe Vista.
Carry-on testing... my responsibility is to the businesses I deal with and I would be failing in my duty to them if I were to advise them to move to Vista as it as at the present time.
FYI SME's are not beta-testers, they don't have to have the newest, buggiest o/s since what they are using performs as it should and long may that remain.
I notice that not a single reason has yet been given, by you or by anyone else, as to why anyone, especially an SME who cannot afford to have a beta o/s as a working tool, should dump XP in favour of Vista (other than the eye-candy).
Paul-B

Paul-B wrote:

Only repair techs should install Vista. All others should wait until at least SP1 is out. Personally, I will wait for SP2 and will only put it on one computer for gaming.
Alias

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 05:00:09 -0700, DevilsPGD wrote:

OK...
Another clueless Microsoft butt kisser heard from.

Good thinking. Stay away from Vista, it will give you nothing but headaches. Maybe in 9-12 months, it might be worth putting Vista on a test box to see what improvements have been made, but having Vista will buy you nothing right now. It just lines the pockets of Billionaire Gates.
"john"

Mike Brannigan wrote:

Um, you couldn't communicate with "tens of thousands of business clients" even if you lived to be 200 and that's all you did.

It is prudent and wise to wait until at least SP1 and better yet until SP2. The ONLY people who need to install Vista now are repair techs so they can help the "ten of thousands" of foolish people who installed Vista prematurely.
Alias

Paul-B wrote:

The only reason to install Vista is if you're a repair tech so you can make money off the fools that installed it prematurely.
Alias

"Mike Brannigan"

Not to incite a riot here, but are you saying all "tens of thousands of business clients" asked for Vista to be installed and every single one of them loves Vista and wouldn't want to go back? Or was this a corporate decision that the underlings had no say so ? Hard to be out of tens of thousands of people, not a single one (or even hundreds) would have preferred to stay with XP or even 2000.
And more important to Paul's statement, they have an actual business or other need that justifies installing Vista ? Not being a smart ass, but I'd like to hear why tens of thousands of business clients need Vista and couldn't have stayed with XP for another 6-9 months ? And I'd like to see the customer survey that shows all those tens of thousands of people are happy with Vista and glad they left XP

"Paul-B"

While I disagree with Paul's general statement of there is "Absolutely no need", I would be interested in hearing a solid reason (and not just Microsoft marketing points) about why move to vista. If you have a perfectly working XP system, why would one upgrade to Vista versus waiting 6-9 months for the bugs to get cleared out ? Not that all, or even half the bugs are Microsoft's
I'm not anti-Vista (well maybe a little), I just don't know how tell a happy XP user that they need to upgrade or if they ask, what real reason I should give them to upgrade. Odds are, I'll have to caveat any answer with "What's your hardware config" and then possibly follow with, "You'll probably want to buy....."

People will seldom make the decision to post to a newsgroup, just to let everyone out there know that everything is ok. In other words, there are a lot of people out there using Vista with no issues at all. Personally I have had only one minor issue.
If you checkout the XP groups i'm sure you'll find folks with problems.
But, use whatever you want, it's our own choice.
"john"

"Alias"

Sorry - I should have been clearer - Business with in excess of ten thousand seats of Windows Vista installed.
Sorry but waiting for SPs is an indefinite game - when would you be happy ? You mention SP1 and then prefer SP2, what makes you think SP2 would be the right place for you ? - it might be on XP but SP1 on Server 2003 has proven itself and there are huge numbers of Vista machines deployed in production environments (not just techs) who are not experiencing major issues.
Mike Brannigan

"Dale "Mad_Murdock" White"

please see my other reply on my inappropriate use of language - I meant business clients that have tens of thousands of seats of Vista installed now and have had them for months.
"...Or was this a corporate decision that the underlings had no say so ?..." Also I am not aware of many corporate who ask their staff about software they decide to run at a corporate level. So yes these were corporate deployments taken after appropriate business and technical drivers were analyzed.
Mike Brannigan

"Mike Brannigan"

Then that's not really fair to say you should go to Vista, because a company or two opted to roll out Vista the day it was RTM'd. I'm kinda curious what company does that ? I guess I work around the slow tech people, as I've not heard of any large company doing a large push already.
Im curious about said company, as I'm wondering what their IT folks think of this. I don't meet many IT guys who can't wait to roll out the next OS to the end user, the second it is released. Sounds both scary and exciting, nothing like being on the bleeding edge

"Paul-B"

I'm finding the new Explorer a real time saver. Travesing my folders - which I do alot because I develop and have a number of related projects on the go - is much easier with Vista than with any other operating system - XP, OS X, DOS or Linux.
I also like the fact that Vista fully recognized my cameras w/o any need to install drivers and software. I can import and make movies . right . a . way.
And I like all the new games.
And I like the idea of IE7 operating in Protected mode by default. A feature which sandboxes IE7 away from the rest of the system making it more secure (of course security is a process here). The house of cards that is FF just folds when compared to IE7 in Protected mode.
There are many reasons to move to Vista.
Saucy Lemon For email: guidsaucy at hotmail dot com The Lord is close to all who call on him, yes, to all who call on Him sincerely. Bible - Psalm 145:18

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:43:48 +0200, "john" spake thusly:

No problems here (at least no more than I had in XP anyway).
Scott angrykeyboarder.com
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:43:24 +0100, Alias spake thusly:

I bought a fresh copy of Vista a few weeks ago and I have no regrets. And frankly I've had no burning desire to boot into Linux for the past week or so. I suppose I'll get back there eventually......
I've been pleasantly surprised with Vista's speed, stability and lack of bugs.
Scott angrykeyboarder.com
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:23:20 -0000, "Mike Brannigan" spake thusly:
[......]

I'd love to know who some of these business are. Every one I ever come across is running a version of Windows that was the most up to date and current three years ago.
And big business tends to hold of on upgrades till they can do lots of testing.
IT departments tend to be conservative.
Heck, My (then) employer announced in early 2003, they were upgrading to XP from NT 4!
And this was no "Mom and Pop" business (40K+ employees worldwide).
Scott angrykeyboarder.com
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:41:04 -0000, "Paul Smith" spake thusly:

"A lot" can still be a minority.
Seriously, outside of the lovely GUI and some cool new features, there really *isn't* a need go upgrade at this point.
I did not because I had to, but because the geek in me had to. :0).
Considering Microsoft is supporting XP for several years to come, there really isn't a reason to upgrade now.
Were I not so anxious and exited about it (I'd been doing the public beta thing since May) I'd have held off till SP1.
But I caved. :-)
It's a luxury, not a necessity.

Scott angrykeyboarder.com
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.

"Saucy"

IE7 is available for XP
Seriously, you can't count the freebie games as a reason to migrate to Vista. That's just scary :p

"Dale "Mad_Murdock" White"

But one can mention how Explorer speeds up my work. I find the 'breadcrumb bar', as they call it, a real boon to me and makes traversing folders much quicker - not to mention the more intelligent dialogues. I spend a fair time creating things on one project and copying them to other projects etc. .. saving things in different places and so on. Vista is noticably quicker and I save time with it.
IE7 doesn't run in Protected Mode on XP. It does on Server 2003 and Vista.
[Features new to Windows Vista - Wikipedia] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_Vista
Saucy Lemon The Lord is close to all who call on him, yes, to all who call on Him sincerely. - Bible - Psalm 145:18 For email: guidsaucy at hotmail dot com

Mike Brannigan wrote:

I still don't think you've spoken with each one.

It's not going to happen? Vista will never have service packs?

I will wait at least a year, if not more. I have no need for Vista and/or the cost of upgrading hardware. Everything I do with a computer can be done with XP or Ubuntu. Why should I spend money on an OS that isn't read for prime time yet?
Alias

Scott wrote:

Lucky you. And you're not a tech?
Alias

Dale "Mad_Murdock" White wrote:

The company's name is Microsoft.
Alias

"Scott"

I'm with you on this one. Though my focus is the games side of the house. Though once I heard Crysis works and looks 90-95% as good under DX9 as it does DX10, I'm thinking I may not being using Vista as much after all.
But I have friends family member that are getting new PCs this year and they all seem to be coming with Vista pre-loaded on them and I always get stuck doing tech support, so I have to stay in touch with what's going on. Though Maybe this is my chance to get out of doing tech support

"Scott"

I'll second that, with only one small thing . . .
When I restart the computer, the screen saver and all power saving options do not function.
Screen saver won't start . . . monitor won't power down and the system will not sleep on its own . . .
. . . however . . .
. . . once I play any video in Media Center all those functions return and work just fine, until I restart the system, that is, but I don't restart very often.
Strange, but at least I found a work around, and it's the only bug I've run into that caused me any stress (so far). :-)
Mic

At least they can call "Tech Support" when it all blows up!
"Alias"

"Dale "Mad_Murdock" White"

I know what you mean by 'getting out of tech support.' We have over nine-hundred members in our computer club, and I'm one of a very few who have volunteered their time to fix the member's computers. Why I'm lurking here reading about how to fix all of the Vista problems, is beyond me. A little stipend from Bill, for keeping all those PCs working, would lighten my spirits.

"Capt Nemo_MSMVXPshelluser" wrote in message