I didn't come into this group for a few days, and now saw that people are saying exactly the same things I have been crying out for so long, and have been called a troll. I wonder as time goes by and more people realize the truth, how with the fanatic vista lovers hang on to their misconceptions?
For example this post: Subject: why why why from Mas Despacio
why did microsoft have to unleash the dinosaur that is vista on an unsuspecting world...
people everyday rely on computers for their work, but sadly when they cannot do half the work they used to because vista runs so slowly, they begin to get discruntled, disillusioned and downright angry that they have been conned into installing a product that clearly isn't fit for the purpose that is was sold for. This in the eyes of the law is fraud.
or this one: Subject: Fear from David Dickinson
BEGIN OPINION> I gotta tell ya', I've made a lot of money from using and supporting Microsoft products over the last 28 years. But now, I'm afraid.
The Vista user interface has many, many counter-intuitive features, including some that through creating confusion will cause disasters, including loss of data. In fact, Explorer windows may show inaccurate information. Vista doesn't play well with other machines on a network. Administering it can be tedious and time-consuming when compared to previous OS's. A lot of stuff either doesn't work the way you expect or just doesn't work at all. It's been dumbed down in some areas so much that administrators can't do some things they need to do
Or others asking how to get rid of Vista and revert back to XP...

I laugh at the crude attempts of the fanatic vista lovers in here to excuse vista somehow, by the classic "it works on mine therefore you are doing something wrong" or "since we dont see people complaining, they dont exist"
These excuses are laughable... and are wrong ... I have seen many machines crawl with vista.. not ONE was faster with vista than with XP. Also EVERY user I have talked to (accept the crazy fanboys in here) absolutely hate vista and want XP back! What else I have seen is the more knowledgeable the user the more he wants XP back! Only a amature casual user would like vista, because it has a fresh look.. people who really use computers for work don't!

"Tiberius"

You were doing well

I know.. I just stepped in to say that now that I stopped kicking vista in the cybernuts there are others that are doing it for me...
of course there are the clueless vista fans that dont have a clue about why the rest of the world is complaining... who will support their pricey OS util death.
Dont worry.. I m fed up with telling the truth, educating da vistaboys, explaining to the people in here, and being insulted and called a troll and other names...
"Jay"

"Tiberius"

$5 says you won't stop (who'll hold the money?). I've only been here a few days and already recognise you as one of those tiresome people who goes out of their way to find an MS forum purely to mock MS users. I'm lucky, mines free via MSDN (work paid) but were I to shell out hard earned $ to be mocked I imagine I wouldn't be best pleased.
Jay

to mock

I am an MS user myself, and a grand supporter of Microsoft unless they make some exceptionally bad product, and in that case I CANT say its ok. I can guess that you can guess what product I think is a flop... :-)
The mock is not true... I respect everyone.. by my calling vistaboys stupid im trying to rock their brains a little bit, perhaps knock some sense into them. In a sense I am not making fun of them nor insulting them. I am saying the truth in a blant way. If someone uses and actually likes vista, there MUST be going something wrong in their heads. Its like me seeing people eating trash pie and loving it... what do you want me to do, shrug it off?
It might not be exactly that they see all its problems, yet think Vista is great.. it may be that what they are doing on the OS is not creating the problems... If I have Vista sitting there with a few apps, and not really stretch it to its limits, then it wont show its shortcomings. Also for it to work smothly I would have to have super fast hardware.. many people in here use vista on new computers. That is ok... but I am thinking about the rest of the world me me or them. In that case if they say vista is great, they are indeed ignorant of its problems. Problems that show themselves in a reality that "is a jungle out there" Is ignorance a sin? Think about that a little.
Do you want me to know the truth and not speak it? So vistaboys don't like me.. ok.. im not running for president. But I do care about people....
Think of this as kind of a "rough caring" or in other words I care deeply about the welfare of everyone.. my methods are just a little off the wall.


"Jay"

"Tiberius"

Against my better judgement about feeding trolls..... Why must something be wrong? Am I about to experience an OS meltdown at any second? My OS is working perfectly and I have no plans to switch back. This is wrong in your eyes?

Yes. They are loving it. It is their business. Who made you Nanny?

I have SQL Management Studio 2005, Visual Studio 2005 and a webcast running on my laptop and notice no limitations/problems. Do you have a scenario to report?
Jay

Sure, and this is the reason why I dumped Vista was because I decided to try to do heavy duty some work on it. Normally I don't change much on my work computers.. but hey.. vista was out and I wanted to really put it to the test. Do trolls actually take the time to explain all this? I doubt it.... Apps: Adobe, Photoshop, dreamweaver, flash, corel draw, office2007, Web expression , FrontPage, and various heavy weight video and audio producing applications (ALL CLAIM) to be vista compatible...
The result was that vista was very slow (not to mention that the time it took to install all these was far greater than installing them on the SAME machine on a dual boot with XP). Ok I could overlook the install, since it s a one time thing.. but then..
working on vista was so painstakingly slow I was amazed!!! I could not finish the work out of frustration, problems started to show, explorer was freezing... OK I can admit that I do some very complex stuff, but as I said XP worked well under the same stuff...
I went back to XP (as I said dual boot so its the same hardware) and I as pleasantly surprised to see the fantastic speed of the OS. I got the work done, and never got frustrated at all. XP just works!
From that point on I will not and cannot use Vista for work. I use it only to fool around...and learn more about it.
EVEN if the interface was good, which its not, the performance of this OS is very low - again compared with xp on the same hardware.
This machine is not very new, but well inside the parameters vista gives.. 1.8 GHz with 1.5 gb of ram... but even on another faster machine that I have dual boot too, vista performed poorly...
and I must NOTE that all drivers were the ones vista had.. I didn't install any of my own, so its not a driver problem. That excuse is overused by vista fanatics .
Look you have to understand that I am a guy who has been using computers so intensely that I have a "6th" sense about what is going on, on a pc, when it has the slightest degradation of speed or creation... Computers to me are like musical instruments and I can hear a falsetto when its being played.
PS. Yes I did try to fine tune vista, but don't imagine that I got a lot more performance out of it.
"Jay"

"Tiberius"

You ran these at once or just had them installed? What is this fairly complex stuff that you do? I am familiar and use all of them except Coral Draw and FrontPage *spits*
With any OS upgrade you have to make allowances for resources. MS made no secret of the fact that the new OS required greater CPU power and RAM so therefore XP + apps is not the same as Vista + apps. You buy a gruntier car you get a larger tank.
I too am an experienced Windows user (and programmer) I don't claim to hear it sing though :)
Jay

Hello.... I always need to have several of these open at the same time and need to switch from one to the other.. Now imagine me using a multitrack sony acid musical score with 10+ Tracks, and trying to save it so I can then import it into a flash with another 15+layers of animations and images & text, I have Photoshop on, so I can edit some of the images, and corel also handy so I can create a graphic element on the fly... By the way, the preview of flash inside the flash application was very slow... I switched to XP and the animation played at real time.
Poor vista just cant handle all this, yet XP can do it perfectly on the same hardware.

Well if the vistaboys would accept that as truth I would not have a problem. Of course it is like that.. but they say lies that "Vista is FASTER than XP" lol
I believe that this is a distortion in their perception by the fact that vista has better cache and that they had a clean install to work with. But it is not really true..and I have seen this on many machines.

Well perhaps you should start thinking of it that way then. There are no boundaries between man and the machine in my case.. the computer has become an extension of my creative mind. It allows me to product a multitude of things that I conceive in my brain, and has given me access to any information my mind can ask for. In this sense the whole internet is my memory bank and knowledge base. And I can "feel" the slightest problem... and performance degradation. Thats why even if a virus or malware slips in, I discover it right away.. lol I am a human antispyware and antivirus.

"Jay"

"Tiberius"

As I said XP + Apps <> Vista + Apps. Get some more grunt on your box and when you boot to Vista you'll enjoy the same speed and performance.

So you agree that to achieve the same performance on Vista you need to upgrade the resources yet you try to compare the 2 OSs using identical hardware? and based on the results of this you "revert to XP and will never go back" You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Why are you so keen to see Vista fail?

You appear to be using our debate to do exactly what I see you as... someone with a blind intent on bashing MS.

Now you are beginning to scare me!
Jay

"Tiberius"

You allow a virus or malware to "slip in"? Are you sure you are an experienced PC user?
When you have finished thinking of your PC as some sort of "extension" you might want to update your AV/Spyware definitions.
Jay

Unfortunaly, if you do the amount of work I do on the internet, viruses and malware do slip in from time to time, even though you may have the best antivirus apps. It doesn't happen often, but it does.. and as I said in those cases I catch them myself. Plus I have to clean many computers for others, and I can find out the problem fast...
It might be a surprise to you, but there has not been even ONE computer that I have had to fix that has windows on it, that didn't have spyware, malware or a virus. All of them were infected in some way causing degradation of performance.
As a programmer you should be aware of such things...I believe you do, but you are trying to prove somehow that I don't know what I am doing.
If you read the statistics and comparisons there is not even one product out there that can fully protect you from these threats, and I have tested them all.. I am now using the best antivirus there is NOD32... small in footprint but catches the most viri than any other antivirus....
Add the fact that most users are inexperienced, the result is them having problematic machines without them knowing it.
I have 3 antispyware applications... Vista as you may have read on online comparisons, is not more secure against viri and malware compared to XP.
The only way to be sure you wont get a virus is to use MACOSX or Linux.
But I love windows despite those problems... the good versions of windows that is, that exclude Windows Me and Vista.
Any tool is the extension of the user.. for an artist its the pencil or brush, for the musician its the instrument, for the doctor its the scalpel...
the computer is just one heck of complex tool....
Don't be afraid of this concept... this is when one shows that he has mastered his art or profession, then the tools have become one with the user and all he cares about is the ending results and enjoys the process as well.
"Jay"

"Jay" wrote in news:Ot3gqjNrHHA.192 TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:

Ahhh. Here's the big sticker Jay. You've only been here a few days you say, so you missed those threads, there haven't been any lately, that had several staunch Vista supporters insisting that Vista DOES run faster on identical hardware than XP. The point was Vista is so much better than XP that it overcame all of the bloat and extra stuff and managed to make apps run faster.
That arguement has died down though, as seems to be finally accepted that yes Virginia, it does require more hardware to achieve the same user- perceived performance.

Hi everyone i am not a boffin or pc nerd i have just purchased a new pc that came with vista basic what can i say. we are going backwards this os is crap after loosing over 3.000 pictures at the click of a button i am going back to xp. the vista o.s is not user friendly and me and my partner find it hard if not impossible to do the basic tasks we used to perform on xp.can anyone help with the correct procedure to install xp on my pc thanks.Dell dimention 520 360 gb harddrive 1024ram
"Tiberius" wrote:

Tiberius
MS know that Vista is not yet good enough for mission critical stuff.. most of the IT world should know that Vista is not yet good enough for mission critical stuff.. HP and Dell already know this, and it is reflected in the fact that they supply mission critical 'workstations' with XP still..
There was a time when XP was not good enough, and business users held on to Win 2000.. some still do.. but XP came good, just as Vista will in time..
XP users still have problems as can be seen if one visits the XP newsgroups.. Mac OS users have problems, Ubuntu users have problems, AIX users have problems.. set any computer OS up and leave it be, no problems.. get a group of users together of varying ability levels, then sit and wait for the problems to start, because they surely will..
Re the user interface.. 'but I always did it this way in XP'.. 'but I always did it this way in Win 2000'.. 'but I always did it this way in Win ME'.. 'but I always did it this way in Win 98'.. 'but I always did it this way in Win 95'.. 'but I always did it this way in Win 3.1'..

"Tiberius"

Mike Hall MS MVP Windows Shell/User msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

However I used XP before any service packs existed and never ever complained about anything!!! In fact I praised MS for making XP!!!.. the improvement upon what was my prior OS (windows98) was so big it was astonishing!
And I thought longhorn (vista) would be a similar breakthrough after 5 whole years of work... slowly with the betas and RC I started getting the scary realization that vista would be horrible!
The stability, speed, ease of use.. XP was a milestone and it saved my as* because win98 crashed on my several times a day and needed restart.. with XP I finally was able to work without fear... I had lots of ram.. but 98 couldnt take advantage of it!
A very annoying problem with win98 was the resource instability... even if you had 512mb of ram.. if you were running enough programs (even though you might had lots of ram still free) the OS would destabilized.
In fact there is no doubt that if MS didnt move to the NT platform, it would have lost big time, from rivals like MAC and linux that had the stability needed, and was making fun of windows for stability issues... Without that move MS would have lost the OS battle.
Now you may say that I skipped windows2000. That is true.. but windows2k was not so popular then.. and not for the normal user.. MS, promoted it only for businesses (actually it didnt promote it much at all!), and there were not so many drivers, but by the time XP came out there were plenty of XP -2k compatible drivers. What they DID promote was windows Me a that time... and you know what fiasco that was!! Everyone went back to win98 just like now they are going back to XP from Vista.
What am I saying here is that XP was so great an improvement from 98 that it was well worth the money 10 times so! But Vista has no big changes.. and those it has are mostly without caring for the user experience... also making everything slower without giving back something.
I never every said I am resistant to change.. If you see my pc, everything I have on it is the latest and greatest.. I update incrementally.. this means if a program goes from 8.1.1 to 8.1.2 I get the update! lol
I welcome each change and adjust very fast.. I am used to this. But when a change is horrible.. sorry... I cant use it.
This is not a debate about habits of working.. this is a debate of whether Vista even is good enough to stay on a PC!
"Mike Hall - MVP"

one more thing that people who say XP was not good before service packs:
This is misleading! Xp was very good even without service packs! It was the attacks that evolved durring its lifetime that forced it to become more sercure via the service packs... in other words the service packs are mainly for security patches .. security patches for threats that did not exist when XP came out!
So how can you say XP was not good when it came out if the threats did not exist??
This is misleading.. and a bad excuse to try to say "Hey vista will not be good until a SP1". Nope, XP was good right out of the box, vista is Crap right out of the box and a service pack cannot change the reasons why its crap: maily Bad interface and user experience design (a service pack wont change the GUI!!!) and SLOW SLUGGY performance... (dont expect a service pack to make vista go much faster)
"Mike Hall - MVP"

If you change your OS will you still be in warranty?
Ask that before you do anything else
"frenchie b"

Vista Sp1 will release including a Kernel update, this probe than this os was not finished when was launch come to market, actually vista is a waste of money, give no any real improvement over XP and requiring a double of hardware to do the same things slowly ....

I am amazed how boring you are.
"Tiberius"

I am amazed how blind you are.
"DX" wrote:

blind ??? Obviously people like you are to stupid to use new technology, go get a refill cartridge for your typewritter.
"Mario"

You call vista a new technology ???? where ?? or maybe im the blind to don't see the NEW and only see the mem hungry, lack of innovation, slow and expensive product than vista is ??
"DX" wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1
Mario wrote:

Hi Mario, Vista is certianly not slow here. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - enigmail.mozdev.org
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XP was not good for everybody 'out of the box'.. now you are beginning to sound like your 'vistaboys'..
"Tiberius"

Mike Hall MS MVP Windows Shell/User msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

well maybe you are, Vista has lots of new features in it, including UAC, better memory management, improved UI, smartfetch, readyboost just to start with!
i'll give you it's a bit expensive, as for slow and memory hungry goes, you obviously have rubbish hardware, just because a new os has came out does not mean you have to run to the shops to buy it to load on your rubbish hardware, then sit and cry about it. Once you get the correct hardware invest in vista the speed and performance is best to date.
"Mario"

oK, let say than is no slow but mem hungry, lack of innovation, buggy and expensive product than vista is ... i cant give a tons of reasons to say than vista is not a good product, this could be and should be considering concept a good, innovating so, but in the way some was lost ...
"Richard" wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1
Mario wrote:

I have 2gb of ram as I edit a lot of video files & sound files. I am very happy with the performance of this machine.
10 years ago or so my Win95 machine had about 8mb of RAM I think when I bought it....this one bought a few months ago came with 2gb.
I can buy 2gb of RAM for about the same cost as 8mb was back then, so I don't see the problem here?
The overall performance of this machine verses the one 10 years ago is vastly superior & cost £100 less :-)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - enigmail.mozdev.org
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On 6/12/2007 7:37 AM On a whim, DX pounded out on the keyboard

Let's see...the comment was TOO STUPID:
1. "to stupid" 2. "refill cartridge" sorry, they were ribbons 3. "typewritter"
Care to define, "new technology" in light of the above? Would that include a spell checker?
Terry R.
***Reply Note*** Anti-spam measures are included in my email address. Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

Terry, 1. I'm dyslexic, sorry if that is a crime 2. They came in cartridge format to as well as ribbons 3. see 1
Thanks for you strong input though.
"Terry R."