why did microsoft have to unleash the dinosaur that is vista on an unsuspecting world...
people everyday rely on computers for their work, but sadly when they cannot do half the work they used to because vista runs so slowly, they begin to get discruntled, disillusioned and downright angry that they have been conned into installing a product that clearly isn't fit for the purpose that is was sold for. This in the eyes of the law is fraud.
I am running vista home premium on a brand new laptop with 1.5gb of ram, a 2ghz chip and a radeon express 1100 graphics card....according to all the 'documentation' about upgrading to vista that microsoft puts out this laptop should have no problems....
well, my productivity has haled and i now spend half the day watching that annoying swirly blue glass halo whizzing around (and from my experience it's the fastest moving thing that vista has to offer)....my transfers from one network drive to another clock at 1mb/s (and when i'm transferring 1gb files they take a while!)
commands in some apps complete in just a fraction over the time that i can make a cuppa....
so what's going on?
i try get support from microsoft...but the product key that comes on the little shiny sticker isn't actually the key that they want to activate the free support - is this deliberate we may wonder....
so my 'suggestion' to microsoft would be to actually recall, refund and redesign vista....so that it actually works!
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On Jun 12, 8:33 am, mas despacio <mas despa... discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

{snip}

What apps? My Vista laptop is the quickest machine I've owned. Faster than my work desktop which is XP and similar specs. I regurlarly fire up SQL 2005, visual studio (admittedly I don't use office much on the laptop) and have no problems. I transfer to/from a usb drive faster than any previous machine.

You don't have to accept it exactly as it comes out of the box. You are allowed to fine tune it for greater speed, and won't get sent to prison for doing so. It's not completely against the rules and doesn't violate the eula.
Jon
"mas despacio" <mas despacio discussions.microsoft.com>

Please relize that not everyone has the same experience you do. It's sort of like someone buying a car that is a lemon. Because some cars are lemons doesen't prove that every car in that line is a lemon. I have a laptop with 1 gig of ram, and Vista seems very fast to me.
As to the sticker, rellize that MS sells Vista to computer manufactures at a steep discount, but with steep discount comes the responsibilty for the manufacturers to support Vista on their computers. If you buy a copy of Vista at a store, you will have 90 day free support.
You didn't say if the laptop came equiped with Vista. If it did, go to the maker and complain about the speed. If it didn't, make sure you have the correct and current Vista drivers for all your hardware, as that can make a big difference on both the speed and relibility of your system.
Larry Maturo
"mas despacio" <mas despacio discussions.microsoft.com>

"mas despacio" <mas despacio discussions.microsoft.com> <snip>

That is because it's an OEM install of Windows Vista and you get your support from your OEM not Microsoft. So take you problems to them. Although I would have to echo a number of other posters and suggest that your experience is not common if the platform is as you describe - however you may wish to look at making a few changes from the as shipped configuration - there re a number of post about how to speed up network transfers etc to be found on these newsgroups etc..

Mike Brannigan "mas despacio" <mas despacio discussions.microsoft.com>

If not everyone has the same experience as me, why are there so many posts about reverting to xp...and as to OEM is that not MS sherking its responsibility to the end user, afterall dell are now supplying new pc's with xp - again...is that the step forward that vista was supposed to bring...and yes, i have been through all the documentation, got all the latest drivers and done every tweak i can find...
"Larry Maturo" wrote:

"mas despacio"

Because there are plenty of tweaks that you didn't find, and neither did they.
Jon

there may be loads of tweaks out there, but there is still one question...why should I or anyone have to go out and find them...these things should have been done before product launch...
"Jon" wrote:

I just finished transferring a 6.7 gig file from my Vista box to my Windows XP box. The transfer speed was over 90mb/s on a 100mb/s wired LAN.
Do some people have slow transfers? I am sure. Do they have their network setup correctly? Who knows. But I have been able to solve for the slow transfer rate problem in three different establishments at this point. In each case their network computers were mis-configured and pretty much screwed up. And no one, least of all I, considers me a network specialist.

Regards,
Richard Urban Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User (For email, remove the obvious from my address)

"mas despacio" <mas despacio discussions.microsoft.com>

LOL!! There are over twenty MILLION Vista licenses shipped. Count up those "so many" posts you refer to and work out the percentage of 20 million.
Of course, not everyone who reverts to XP announces it on this newsgroup. So double them, or multiply them by ten, or a hundred, or a thousand even, and then work out the percentage. It's tiny.
Thack

"mas despacio"

This would be my take.
I think part of the problem is that the out-of-the-box configuration is trying to please everyone and ending up pleasing no-one.
Virtually everything is enabled out of box for every conceivable type of user - so that 99% of users can turn it on and have their particular favourite piece of functionality run instantly.
It's a bit like a great big single-layered box of chocolates where every type of chocolate is on display at once. Seeing the chocolates layer by layer, or only having those particular chocolates that a given user finds tasty on display would have been a better approach.
But likewise to expect MS to have come up with the pefect display of chocolates that suits you to the tee when you first open the box is also expecting too much .
Jon

"Richard Urban" wrote in news:u9aNLJHrHHA.3484 TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:

So share with us what configuration error(s) there were to fix these three different establishments slow tranfer problem ?
This could help countless others in the same boat.

"mas despacio"

20 Million of copies of Vista Sold in February 07 alone, and a few hundred posts here about problems. hardly an epidemic.

.....i've tried what many people have said to fix the problem but to no avail...i am transferring 9.7gb of data at the moment and it tells me that it is going to take a day and a half....i am using 2 lacie 1tb minis on a wireless 54mbs network and am being told by the task manager that it is using 25% of the network capacity...i don't expect to get 54mb speeds, but 1mb is lousey especially as the same config before vista upgrade gave me 48mb consistently...
"DanS" wrote:

"KDE"

oh c'mon - that's the same reasoning I'd expect from a compensated MVP.
what about users that don't even know about ng's, or do but don't use them? what about users whose systems are so hosed they can't even get online? do they count? or does the fact that you don't hear from them here mean they don't exist? so you're saying that anyone who -is- having "issues" comes here, and -only- here, therefore this ng is some kind of measuring stick for Vista problems worldwide? it doesn't wash.
======================================= Normal Person: What's the difference between ignorance and apathy? Frank: I don't know, and I couldn't care less. =======================================

personally i know about 30 people (both friends and professionals in IT) of those around 2/3 are reverting back...
"Steve Thackery" wrote:

so you're saying that anyone who -is- having "issues" comes here, and -only-

no, no more than saying because there are a couple of dozen post here about people wanting to revert back to XP that Vista is a bust and gonna bankrupt the free world.
the fact is, of the millions of people that have installed and are using Vista, most have no problems or been able to work through the small issues they have had and are happy with their systems.

Mas Despacio
If this is truly a brand new laptop, I would return it immediately and get a replacement or get my money back. The laptop should have been thoroughly tested before being sold to you. I have Vista running on 2 laptops and 3 desktops of varying ages and configurations here and they are all fast and stable.
As to why you see so many posts about people having problems here, it's because this is a support newsgroup. If you want to find out the general health of the world and you go to a hospital, you would conclude that the whole world was sick. :)

Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
"mas despacio"

=?Utf-8?B?bWFzIGRlc3BhY2lv?= wrote in news:85E0F0EA-EAD0-421B-8E2F-4B5916210718 microsoft.com:

Well, what you speak of with those speeds is theoretical total speeds of the wireless connection, not of actual user throughput.
On a 54 mbps wireless connection, the max you will most-likely see as user throughput is around 35 mb/sec, at the best connection speed. It goes downhill from there.
Wireless is not something you can really judge the networking throughput on. There is too much 'other' stuff that can have an effect on it, mostly interference from other 2.4Ghz gear, of all types, from other WLAN's to wireless cams, to microwaves, to cordless phones, etc......
(And yes, the WLAN environment can change daily, so to call this a Vista problem immediately may be premature, even though I'd like to bash Vista about it, it has to be narrowed down.)
In this case, I'd first try to connect by wire to take all other 'causes' out of the loop. If it works fine on a CAT5 cable, it's time to start looking at the wireless setup.....drivers specifically with any USB interfaces, but internal WiFi cards also.....PCMCIA, PCI.
The are external wireless clients. EnGenious, for example, makes a desktop 802.11B/G bridging device that functions as either an AP, or as a client, and plugs directly into the LAN. The nice thing about this setup is that ANY TCP/IP device can use it, no drivers required.
Regards,
DanS

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 16:21:29 -0600, "KDE" wrote:

You redefine dumb. Most Microsoft stooges do.

...if i went to a hospital i would also see a great number of people visiting/helping the sick...i certainly wouldn't see people saying "i'm healthy so i don't care about you sick people" and while it's very 'nice' to be an mvp the 'average' user of vista isn't. Luckily I have more than average knowledge, so my concern is for the people who don't - or is MS banking on everyone getting mvp cert so that they can get vista running properly.
"Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote:

thanks dan, but as i said totally the same setup except for the vista element 48mb/s before, now 1mb/s...2.4ghz interference is very low where i have it set up and the laptop is sat right next to the router...i could plug it in, but then why buy wireless?
"DanS" wrote:

"KDE" wrote in news:uYihXfHrHHA.3484 TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:

First....I'm glad you believe 20 million copies were sold in Feb., thats EXACTLY what MS wants you to think.
But the real question is what is meant by a few hundred posts here about problems ? ....is that a day, or what you see total ?
I see 80 new threads started today (according to the date on my newsreader). Of course a few are started by so-called trolls, but only few are started that way, but may turn into a pis*ing match.

=?Utf-8?B?bWFzIGRlc3BhY2lv?= wrote in news:4AB4B088-AD9E-4752-A171-6C6FC4AEC555 microsoft.com:

Again, unfortunately, it is most likely a driver issue first, then the slow tranfer Vista issue.
That is how I would approach it.
You didn't say what type of wireless adapter you have. I have to assume you have the latest and greatest drivers....maybe even try stepping back to the XP drivers and see if they work under Vista, many XP drivers do work.
The other choice is to try to find drivers form another mfg that incorporate the exact same chipset as the one you have, if it's a PCI/PCMCIA card, that may work better in Vista.
It's a *longshot*, but wasting an hour of time (out of the day and a half transfer time) may be worth it if you can find something that works.

First, If you would like some assistance from the experienced power users that volunteer their free time to help solve your problems, all you need do is ask.
It appears that you are using Home Premium OEM, meaning the computer manufacturer is responsible for tech support, repair, replacement or refund. MS sold Vista to them, and they resold it to you. Once the computer manufacturer owned the right to use that copy of Vista, they were legally allowed to alter to it by installing additional third-party software, such as AntiVirus, and customization, a.k.a. branding.
Now, it's your turn to install, tweak, customize, modify, reconfigure and optimize the final system to do your tasks the way you want it to do them.
This is Vista, not XP. Some things work differently.
Now, did have a question to ask, or a specific problem you would like to solve?
KB
"mas despacio"

Did the new laptop come with Windows Vista? If so, there are probably may programs installed by the OEM slowing the computer down. Also make sure you have all the latest hardware drivers. Do not assume new means you have the latest drivers. Contact the OEM and have them fix it or consider returning the laptop. If you installed Windows Vista, perhaps something happened during the install.
Is Windows Vista OEM? If yes, that explains why you can not get support from Microsoft. It is deliberate since Microsoft does not support OEM. You will need to contact the OEM for support. No Microsoft support is one of many reasons you pay less for OEM than retail.
I have Windows Vista successfully running on an older laptop Toshiba Tecra S1, 1.6 GHz, 500 MB RAM. More RAM will improve it, but for now it works OK as it is.
Windows Vista does not need to be recalled.
Jupiter Jones [MVP] www3.telus.net/dandemar dts-l.org
"mas despacio" <mas despacio discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

"is that not MS sherking its responsibility" Not at all. The OEM sells gets and sells the licenses cheaper than retail so the OEM and not Microsoft provide support. One of the many reasons you paid less for your OEM than retail.
"dell are now supplying new pc's with xp - again" Dell never stopped selling computers with Windows XP. However it did add models that will be available with Windows XP. This is the similar to what happened when Windows XP was released. The prior OS was available for a while. While the retail channels had them available for a few years. I expect the same to happen with Windows Vista. This is nothing new.
Jupiter Jones [MVP] www3.telus.net/dandemar dts-l.org
"mas despacio" wrote in message

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:16:16 -0600, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote:

Maybe not, but I could quickly put together a short list of hot head MVPs that should be recalled, dismissed or simply shown the door.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:18:20 -0600, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote:

You should change your name to Saturn, since nearly everybody seems to do rings around your limited knowledge.
Microsoft employees wrote Windows. Shove the crap it is the OEMs problem that Vista sucks. That's like blaming the car dealer if you bought a model known to have problems. The problem lies with WHO built the car or WHO wrote the software. Write that down, so you don't forget.

Reason? You mean excuses. I don't know of any other product that the MANUFACTURER doesn't stand behind when it breaks.

"Jon"

But why should the average user have to "fine tune" (and I dispute that that term is appropriate) anything? Sure, we've gotten folks used to uninstalling unneeded apps that come pre-installed from the manufacturers, but to get Vista to perform well on many networks and in many homes, it often requires:
Disabling IPv6 Applying a manually downloaded update to XP machines Disabling autotuning Disabling several unneeded and inappropriate services Searching for updated drivers from device manufacturers Disabling indexing (currently one of the most popular "tweaks")
The average user or really-small business "administrator" (I use the term loosely) knows nothing about those things, and they are a big part of the market. (Sure, I like making money helping them to do new things with their computers and they like it, too. But I dread those calls when they say "my computer is broken!", because when they're not happy, neither am I. And I'll often have to charge them more for setups. They're not gonna like that.)
Even XP Home, at the time the most complex OS ever released for average users, could be set up in the home and in many small businesses without much help. But even though some folks have satisfactory experiences with stand-alone Vista machines right out of the box, as soon as they hook it up to a network they often have problems (I won't even mention the bugs). While Vista may have satisfactory backwards compatibility with lots of software, the same can't be said for networked implementations (Vista often thinks that a 2000 server and there are still tons of production machines in use is a router). Not just money is involved here; time is a big factor, too.
I just think it was released too soon, and that a lot of beta testers' feedback was ignored (and it appears that some often-experienced problems didn't emerge until the RTM came out).
Someday maybe after a service pack or two it will begin to live up to its potential. But right now, I think that most businesses should wait.
Hopefully the next OS will let us do what Vista /really/ should have done: get rid of our keyboards! But Microsoft decided to give Vista an extra layer of makeup instead.
David Dickinson eveningstar at die-spammer-die dash mvps dot org Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by email.

"KDE"