I bought Vista Home Premium and loaded it on a new hard drive. What I failed to notice is Remote Desktop is not a feature of Home Premium. I need that feature which comes on Business and Ultimate editions. My Home edition is activated. Can I sell hard drive and all and be OK or will the software see it is on a different motherboard and squawk?
Thanks, tangot2 mail.com

"Fred"

You can sell the hard drive - but if you actually mean can you sell the hard drive AND the Windows Vista software - then yes you can as long as you provide everything that came with the product (including Original DVD and Product Activation Key on its original sticker or card.). The purchaser must also be aware that this has been used and activated and that they will need to activate by telephone and explain to the rep that this was on another PC but has now been moved to theirs.

Mike Brannigan

Goto control panel, Upgrade anytime and upgrade to Ultimate.
"Mike Brannigan"

Fred wrote:

Yes, the software will see it is on another mainboard... and there is no repair installation as it is with Windows XP.
Roy

I think you will find that if you sold the HDD with Vista installed that when the HDD is installed into another computer you will get the "blue screen of death" and have to do a complete clean install again.
I did this as a test for both XP Pro and Vista and the result is the same. If your not happy with your copy of Vista you can sell it, but you MUST inform the purchaser that it has been installed once on your machine. Or as suggested earlier just download the upgrade to a higher version of Vista.
"Roy Coorne" wrote:

"Roy Coorne"

Roy, I notice you say 'motherboard'.
It's my understanding that Vista takes a fingerprint of some of your hardware, and possibly the motherboard could be one of those items as I've swapped out motherboards in the past and had to get another key.
Therefore, it's not only the motherboard, but other hardware in the PC. All he really needs to do is let Microsoft know he purchased the software with the key on a new hard disk. They will most likely give him a new key so he can activate it. HOWEVER, due to the 'hardware' fingerprint, there may be other items that were noted during the first activation.
This is how I would handle it to be entirely safe. I would repartition the hard drive and reformat to my specifications. Then I would install the software using the original product key. Most likely it will not bomb out since it would only be the second activation. Then notify Microsoft that I'm the new owner of the license and give them necessary info and reactivate the software. No muss, no fuss, and it's all clean and legal.
When people sell their PC's they don't take into account the software installed on that PC. They don't know that all licenses for the software on the system needs to be transferred or software destroyed in accordance with the publisher's requirements. So, when someone sells their old XP box, they also need to transfer the license to XP and the new owner needs to let Microsoft know about it. I know I've beaten Adobe over the head several times concerning their products.

"Fred"

Here's what you should do. If you want to sell the hard disk as well, that's your prerogative but it may cause problems with the new owner since it took a fingerprint of more than your hard disk.
Just remove Vista from the hard disk and sell the software to the new owner. Have the new owner notify Microsoft that they are the new owner and Microsoft will probably give them a new product key to use. Then your activation is deactivated and theirs is activated. When they install on their system, a fingerprint is taken of THEIR system instead of yours.
It may sound a bit much, but it's really not that hard and it's one way to do it and keep your hard disk and sell the software legally.

"Bob"

Damn Bob, I didn't think of that. The motherboard drivers were probably also installed on the first system or MS generic drivers installed for the hardware that the new machine may not have. I know whenever I reinstall an OS, I also have to use the CD that came with my motherboard to install the motherboard drivers and other drivers from their respective disk. Good point.

Mike Brannigan wrote:

Actually, they don't need to give the phone rep most of this information. When you call to activate, NO other information is required except as documented below on the MS site:
microsoft.com/piracy/activation_facts.mspx
Mandatory Product Activation Data The Installation ID is unique to each product and comprises two components:
Product ID. Unique to the product key used during installation
Hardware hash. Non-unique representation of the PC
The country in which the product is being installed (for Office XP and Office XP family products only)
Protect your privacy. You do not need to give them more information than that, even if they ask. Simply point them to this link where they have it documented. If they persist anyway, ask to speak to a supervisor. Anything more than the above information which they require is none of their business.
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group: protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html
Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks): "It would be nice if there was a check to see if you were running an activated/validated version of Windows before you were allowed to post in any of these news groups. If you're not activated/validated your post automatically gets deleted. That would get rid of the Linsux Luzzzzzzzzers once and for all."
"Good poets borrow; great poets steal." - T. S. Eliot

Big Dummy wrote:

Again, they don't need to give the phone rep most of this information. When you call to activate, NO other information is required except as documented below on the MS site:
microsoft.com/piracy/activation_facts.mspx
Mandatory Product Activation Data The Installation ID is unique to each product and comprises two components:
Product ID. Unique to the product key used during installation
Hardware hash. Non-unique representation of the PC
The country in which the product is being installed (for Office XP and Office XP family products only)
Protect your privacy. You do not need to give them more information than that, even if they ask. Simply point them to this link where they have it documented. If they persist anyway, ask to speak to a supervisor. Anything more than the above information which they require is none of their business.
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group: protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html
Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks): "It would be nice if there was a check to see if you were running an activated/validated version of Windows before you were allowed to post in any of these news groups. If you're not activated/validated your post automatically gets deleted. That would get rid of the Linsux Luzzzzzzzzers once and for all."
"Good poets borrow; great poets steal." - T. S. Eliot

What if he got OEM or DSP?
Only RETAIL can be resold.. OEM and DSP is tied to the system he first installed and cannot be tranfered. Furthermore he cannot just sell the drive and expect the other guy to install it and boot into vista... he will have to re install on his own system.
Win95 and 98 COULD do that though most of the times with no problem...
with win2000 and XP you would most possibly get a blue screen.. but in some cases it worked.
"Mike Brannigan"

Thanks for sharing, and have you tested the scenario for using backup image of the original install and restore after hardware upgrade/changes? If so, can it work and does it also require a "clean" install.
Someone mentioned that it is possible to avoid additional activations due to hardware failures if original install (before activation) has been back up and then use to restore after hardware changes.
Thanks.

"Bob"

In reference to my earlier comment; Windows XP & Vista do take a snapshot of the Motherboard. You are able to change the CPU without having to redo Windows but not the MoBo.
"Big Dummy" wrote:

"Nina DiBoy"

They will ask you if this software is installed elsewhere, it is part of the script.
Mike Brannigan "Nina DiBoy"

Mike Brannigan wrote:

microsoft.com/piracy/activation_facts.mspx
Mandatory Product Activation Data
* The Installation ID is unique to each product and comprises two components:
1. Product ID. Unique to the product key used during installation 2. Hardware hash. Non-unique representation of the PC
* The country in which the product is being installed (for Office XP and Office XP family products only)

I understand that, but Microsoft does not require the customer phoning in to answer those questions as per documented on their website. Which means you don't have to answer if you don't want.
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group: protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html
Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks): "It would be nice if there was a check to see if you were running an activated/validated version of Windows before you were allowed to post in any of these news groups. If you're not activated/validated your post automatically gets deleted. That would get rid of the Linsux Luzzzzzzzzers once and for all."
"Good poets borrow; great poets steal." - T. S. Eliot

"Nina DiBoy"

Thanks. I was talking from the hip on that, but the bottom line is the two system and one Vista problem and basically that's all they want or need to know. Just to keep you honest. Wish they would let you install on a notebook as well or at least cut the price %50 for a special license to do that.

Big Dummy wrote:

Agreed. MS just keeps getting greedier over the years.
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group: protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html
Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks): "It would be nice if there was a check to see if you were running an activated/validated version of Windows before you were allowed to post in any of these news groups. If you're not activated/validated your post automatically gets deleted. That would get rid of the Linsux Luzzzzzzzzers once and for all."
"Good poets borrow; great poets steal." - T. S. Eliot

* Nina DiBoy:

It certainly looks that way. If you look at technology over the years, almost everything has gotten more powerful, with more features, and and yet, the prices have fallen. Except for Windows. It might take a little time for the newest things to come down in price, but they do. Especially, in the computer industry. Except for Windows.
Technological advances , mass production, and competition have created these market conditions. However, since Microsoft is really a monopoly, they don't have to abide by these market forces that have driven the prices of consumer goods down. It is why they have such huge profit margins, spectacular profit margins. Their last quarterly report was more than impressive. Basically, it took them $3 in sales to make $1 in profit. If, you were to count only the Client (OS) and Office divisions, then it takes about $1 to make .80 cents... that's incredible. There is a part of me that admires such a money machine. But, there does come a point when a company really starts to look like a bunch of greedy pigs. IMO, Microsoft reached that point a long time ago. Or, they can see the light and know their days are numbered, and are making sure they can grab as much now as they can, before their bottom falls out.
Of course, if you owned stock in Microsoft such numbers would make you giddy. Except, Microsoft's stock has been stuck for years. There are a few bumps right after the quarterly releases, the launch of something new, or when Microsoft takes some of their ridiculous amount of stashed cash and starts propping up the stock price by buying back their own stock. A small bump up when Microsoft issued their *first ever* dividend in *2003*. But, the stock then settles down to that range it has been stuck in for about 8 years. I wonder why that is? Perhaps, the stock was overbought in the mid to late 90s. Maybe, there are a lot of investors who just don't see Microsoft being able to continue doing business as they do, getting away with it, maintaining their monopoly, and generating such huge profits. Monopolies don't last forever. Competition, market forces will come to bare sooner or later, and when they do, Microsoft better watch out...... the shareholders, too.
-Michael

Today, MICHAEL made these interesting comments ...

Perhaps Economics 101 plays a big part here - supply and demand, and old-fashioned competition. When there is true competition, as in the hardware market for PCs, peripherals, the general electronics industry, cars, washing machines, just about anything manufactured, technological advances typically drive prices down as manufacturers attempt to gain market share by using better technology to improve their bottom line. And, when there is true competition, manufacturers of both goods and services can afford to take a smaller profit margin as a percent of revenue in the hopes of increased sales, driving even higher revenues, in turn increasing profits.
But, absent competition as in a monopoly or ologopoly, there is no incentive to lower prices. With a bit of over simplification, for the average personal computer buyer, there is Windows, Mac, and Linux, that's about all. The PC vs. Mac debate has been going on for a long time, with Mac prices stubbornly staying quite high but the relative market shares are also pretty static.
Microsoft cuts the OEMs pretty good deals to attempt to keep Linus off their boxes but for us retain folk, why should they reduce prices? There is always a feeding frenzy to be the first on your block to beta test any new version of any software with one's Visa card, but ultimately, if you need or want a new PC and aren't building your own, eventually you will be driven into MS's playing field, again, no incentive to reduce prices.
Economists would call operating systems an inelastic commodity, meaning that no matter the price, people will buy it because they either feel they must have it or because there is no other game in town. Really bad example: cigarettes. Example of an elastic commodity, gasoline: when prices spike, as they have several times in the last 18 months, people start to get religion and think in terms of smaller cars or hybrids. But, as soon as prices ease, they go right back to their big SUVs and high-performance cars.
One other comment: budgets are a zero-sum game for people/families, companies or governments, meaning there is only so much money and compromises must be made. In order to spend more on something you need or want, you must spend less on something else. So, wrt operating systems, it would seem that for the last couple of decades, people have voted with their wallets - sales of Windows and Macs keep going up regardless of the price and seemingly irregardless of the percent the O/S is of the overall system price.

Gates became even more of a bazillionaire. But, the stock price dropped in half a few years back and despite larger gains in sales and revenues, and with compensating large gains in profits from Steve Balmer's more efficient and effective management structure, the stock market has decided not to value MS stock any higher and it stays stubbornly stuck where it was years ago. It isn't that earnings are low or getting lower; they're not, they are rising. It isn't that MS is in a cyclical market like cars where companies frequently tank to the point of red ink; they're not. Yet, the market refuses to reward stockholders with higher prices. This probably annoys the living hell out of Bill and his buddies whose real wealth is in the stock they hold and the options granted to them over the years, much of which is underwater. But, being an optimist wrt to Vista's ability to boost profits at MS, I bought back in at a moderate level. Only time will tell if I did something smart or really dumb again.
Seems you and I at least partially share some "reasons" that explain the high price of Windows and why the stock is stagnant. I guess the only thing to do is stay out of the stock market and give your O/S dollars to somebody else. Now, who?
HP, aka Jerry

Very well said, Jerry.
I don't really have anything to add, because there's nothing I find that I disagree with. Except, I'd be thinking short term on the Microsoft stock you bought. There's a part of me that really feels like the "good times" have about peaked for Microsoft. We'll see.
Of course, with all the money and resources Microsoft has, they could end up doing/developing something so extraordinary, it rocks the technology world and sends their stock zooming up. Do they have the will to do something extraordinary? Many times, behemoths like Microsoft are too complacent and too large to do that, they die slow deaths. Then again, IBM is still a healthy, profitable company. Although, a very innovative company that managed to roll with the punches.
Is Microsoft really that innovative and nimble?
Take care,
Michael
* HEMI-Powered:

Today, MICHAEL made these interesting comments ...

Thanks, Michael. As I said at the end, I thought you and I were pretty much on the same page. I mainly commented to amplify what you'd already said especially for the lurkers who may not be as familiar with the strangeness of operating system non- competitiveness.
You're right on the stock; Last time, I bought it for the long- term, or so I thought, except that the long-term started down a steep slide during the dot.com meltdown in 1999-2000, got hit with the post-9/11 debacle that hit all the high tech stocks, and has never recovered. This time, I bought in much smaller and am watching to see if Vista and other soon-to-be-released products do or don't cause the stock to move up. If not, I'm outta here!

No matter how loud they shout it, I really cannot recall MS EVER producing truly innovative software, whether it is O/S or application. Right now, they're trying to convince the world they can out-Adobe in photo editing and have even started selling printer paper! A software house competing for people's money for the paper their printer uses?
And, if those folks spent more time on developing good features and debugging and less time worrying about people pirating their code, we'd all enjoy both lower prices and more stable software. I don't know how many people are tied on on the WGA et al biz but it has to take away from the overall development effort plus it greatly increases the changes of side-effect bugs and things like false-positives where you know you're legit and MS thinks you're not.
As to the stock price again, the market views MS in its entirety, Windows, Office, graphics, servers, everything as a mass market commodity and they EXPECT ever increasing revenues and profits. As I'm sure you're well aware, stock prices move on the anticipation of news - good or bad - not on the news itself, unless there's a big surprise as when MS delayed Vista last year. So, if the forecasts are met or even exceeded, there's nothing for "the street" to be excited about, hence the price doesn't move.
Now, if MS really did do something that is truly new, innovative, and unique, then, yes, I believe their stock price would be rewarded. But, adding bells and whistles to their O/S and correcting security holes that should never have been there in the first place is hardly what savvy investors are looking for. Neither is me-too stuff ala MS's version of the iPod.
And, every year Gates and his entourage come to Detroit to try to sell technocracy to the car companies, all with zero success so far. Unlike PCs, where people are used to rebooting and always upgrading and/or installing bug patches, cars are expected to start and run correctly day in and day out, and NOT need patching. So, again, if MS could come to Detroit and say "look, here is an all-new approach to the development of YOUR computer software and here's an all-new approach to exiting the young potential buyers who're technology inclined, then, yes, I think they could sell their wares.

You do the same. [snip the previous]
HP, aka Jerry